Help building a 20l river manifold

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Mcgold76
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Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by Mcgold76 » Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:38 pm

Recently got 8 panda loaches. Want to set up a river manifold for them. The biggest I can go is a 20 long. So my first question is a 20 long big enough to do a manifold. How hard is it to do. I am extremely unhandy when it comes to projects. Would I be able to do it? For a 20 long would I still do two powerheads or one. What size powerhead. Do I still use other filtration like an hob or a smaller cannister? What about lighting? Only plants will be some Java moss on driftwood but I do want to grow algae. Could use a lot of advice. Not going to start till summer but want to start gathering supplies when stuff are on sale or cheAp on Craigslist.

Ty

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atmichaels
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by atmichaels » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:13 am

A 20 long is suitable for a manifold. Have you read this article?
http://www.loaches.com/articles/river-t ... old-design
It's really not that hard to build. I would probably still use two powerheads to get the true river movement. If I were building this I'd probably stagger the height of the pumps to get more unidirectional flow. In addition to the manifold, I use a canister and an HOB to keep the water pristine. To encourage algae you'll want to use strong lighting. I've used both T5 HOs and LED with good success. There is definitely a price differential but I much prefer the LEDs for several reasons. I'm currently using a Finnex planted+ on my river. On that note, the pandas aren't really algae eaters but do eat the aufwuchs that thrive in the algae, they are primarily carnivores.

So what other questions does this raise?

Austen
Currently keeping: gastromyzon spp., hypergastromyzon humilis, pseudogastromyzon sp., sewellia spp., ambastaia sidthimunki, homaloptera spp., serpenticobitis octozona, Yaoshania pachychilus. As well as various catfish, loricarids, livebearers and tetras.

plaalye
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by plaalye » Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:48 am

I built a manifold river tank in a 20 long and it didn't work well at all. Just not long enough or enough volume. I eventually tore out the manifold and just hung a powerhead on the glass and it was much better. Easier too.

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Jim Powers
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by Jim Powers » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:48 pm

I made a river tank manifold using an undergravel filter plate instead of pipe. I have one powerhead that puts out about 275gph and one sponge filter on an uplift tube at the other end of the tank, against the back wall. This setup has been going without any problems for over 12years now. I also have a hang on filter. The flow seems to be enough and I have plenty of spotted sewellia spawning (and fry). I think it works well because I only have one powerhead. I think two powerheads would produce too much heat and create odd flow patterns at the far end of the tank. There would also be little if any area of lower current for the fish to rest or for feeding areas.
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mikev
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by mikev » Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:56 pm

plaalye, what do you use to block the intake?

OK...river manifolds... not too difficult, I made many, and I am generally incapable of DYI stuff... I have several running now in 20L and 30B tanks, but I'm not at all sure this is the best way to set up a hillie tank *for most species*. So the more recent tanks here use undergravel filters or no powerhead at all, and this does not stop the fish from thriving or breeding (well, in some cases, I wish they all did :( )

Concurring with Jim on two powerheads and undergravel filters being a better approach.... but even more: my spotted sewellia has been here for 7 years or so, their tank does not have powerhead at all.... doing fine, and the only losses I see are juveniles killed by the adults once in a while (they breed as long as the population does not increase too much for that :oops: ).

Now, not all hillies are the same... for H.confuzona no directed flow (powerheads) is really a bad idea.
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plaalye
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by plaalye » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:31 pm

I tore the whole thing out long ago Mike. I had an Aquaclear 70 on one end and 2 inlets with large sponges opposite in a 20 long. Too much current for that small tank. I experimented with lesser powerheads and it was better but I found the manifold to be a pia and it took up too much room. Not worth it at all in my opinion. But Jim likes it so there ya go. :) different strokes.

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mikev
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by mikev » Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:54 pm

Jim,

I understood you tossed the manifold. But you said
I eventually tore out the manifold and just hung a powerhead on the glass and it was much better.
so I'm asking: what is blocking the intake of the powerhead now? The problem is that Hagen's quickfilter does this well... but not in 20L, it does not fit in it! so what do you use?

-----

And yes, AC 70 is too much, AC 50 for 20L if one wants to go this route.

Mcgold76
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by Mcgold76 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:10 pm

Thanks for all that info. Lol even more unsure of what to do. Alot to process. How do undergravel filters work? Are they hard to clean. What size powerheads. Would a under gravel filter create single direction flow

plaalye
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by plaalye » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:26 pm

I switched to maxijet powerheads. They have a strainer on the bottom and a nice little sponge made for it.
I actually did away with the powerhead in this tank. I now have Aqualclear 50 & 30 HOBs on it with rhinos & sewellia.

mikev wrote:Jim,

I understood you tossed the manifold. But you said
I eventually tore out the manifold and just hung a powerhead on the glass and it was much better.
so I'm asking: what is blocking the intake of the powerhead now? The problem is that Hagen's quickfilter does this well... but not in 20L, it does not fit in it! so what do you use?

-----

And yes, AC 70 is too much, AC 50 for 20L if one wants to go this route.

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mikev
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by mikev » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:55 pm

Good to know, thanks.

My spotty tank (this is just an example) is on HOB + strong box filter. Works fine.

But some fish may want a flow, so I'll look into Maxijets.

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Jim Powers
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by Jim Powers » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:24 pm

Mcgold76:
An undergravel filter is a plastic "plate" that fits fairly snugly in the bottom of the tank. The plate has slots or holes and several round openings for uplift tubes. Rather than me go into too much detail, you might want to do an online search for more info and a pic.
Anyway, gravel covers the UG filter and either airlines or a power head are put on one (or more than one if airlines are used) of the uplift tubes. Water is pulled through the gravel which provides both mechanical and biological filtration. There is no cleaning to do except occasional gravel cleaning. UG filters are much less common than they were several years ago, but I think they definitely have a place. I converted one to a manifold by drilling a hole for an uplift tube at one end of the filter plate (in the middle) and capped off all the other uplift tube openings (which are up against the back wall of the tank) except for one at the opposite end of the tank from the powerhead. In that one I put an uplift tube with holes drilled in it and a sponge filter over the tube.
The powerhead I use is an Aquaclear 402, now called the 50.
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Mcgold76
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by Mcgold76 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:29 pm

Would a mag pump work. Got one I bought awhile Ago that i never used. Would 350gph be too strong In a 20long

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Jim Powers
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by Jim Powers » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:34 pm

I think 350gph would be too much for a tank that size.
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Mcgold76
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by Mcgold76 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:40 pm

Just a thought since I already had the pump Really don't want to go bigger then 20l

Mcgold76
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Re: Help building a 20l river manifold

Post by Mcgold76 » Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:54 pm

Forgive my lack of complete understanding but just want to understand. On one of the up takes I can attach a powerhead and on an uptake on the other side I can attach a sponge filter. Powerhead will suck water from the sponge filter and that current will go underneath the undergravel filter. Then water will shoot out of the powerhead and current will go the other way. Which would enable the fish to experience single directional flow. Am I grasping this right. Is their a way to incorporate an aqua clear hob into this system?

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