16 inch Clown Loach

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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby Loachloach » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:07 am

The problem with such claims is that its hard to believe without any evidence. How can one have such size clown loaches and not one picture to prove it.... If that's the size of the fish, you can't miss it, even in a pond....Providing they are clown loaches, my guess is its an inside tropical pond and not as enormous as one may imagine...

In nature, clown loaches are slim and elongated and not wide as a "grapefruit"...That's irrelevant though but perhaps same as some other fish, domesticated loaches may grow even larger because of the "unlimited" food availability. All fish grow larger and better when the tank is larger and suitable for their requirements. But people tend to overstock even those tanks. I don't think its the size of the tank but the water quality that determines size and overall health.

I recently came across a 1800l(475G) tank that had 120 loaches and a bunch of other fish in it. Give or take, that's 10l(2.5G) of water per clown loach. I wonder if these fish are in a suitable home and grow to their full size, whatever that is? I doubt it....

Anyway, if someone has grown loaches to 18inch, it will be a first....And with respect Keith, your words are based on someone else's claims. If they were yours, I am sure we would have all enjoyed numerous pictures of these rare sized domestic clown loaches.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby redshark1 » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:11 pm

An owner on Loaches Online had a Clown Loach that was 16" according to this thread:

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... -Ever-Seen

The Clown Loach went by the name of Marge.

However, according to the owner Marge was 12" at the time of death as stated in this thread.

viewtopic.php?p=181773#p181773

I know which thread I will choose to believe but it is a prime example of the kind of exaggeration that has been mentioned. A fisherman's tale as we say.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby Bas Pels » Mon Oct 31, 2016 3:38 am

I have made similar errors in the past, being certain a fgish is, say 20 cm, and then it died. Measuring a dead fish is not hard, so this is rather correct, and the fish turned out to be 17 cm

Fisherman´s tales is one explanation, problems with estimating the length of a fish is another. Although, 4 inches is a lot
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby NancyD » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:21 pm

I still say a 12+? inch clown loach can easily have a 3-4 inch tail. I think we're back to the TL vs SL...plus an indulgent owner, seller. or "fisherman's" measuring. Marge is legendary! & there are pics of her somewhere on this site with a ruler. Not the biggest, maybe, but by all standards a very impressive clown...RIP Marge.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby chefkeith » Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:03 am

Here's the largest I've seen photographed.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 05/page-90

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... pg.734065/

I can easy imagine clowns bigger than this in a dedicated pond with an unlimited food source. They are pigs when it comes to eating. The lazy things sleep on their sides like a pig most of the day too.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby redshark1 » Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:58 pm

Thanks, that looks to be 13" to me! I guess it's out of the water as it's going to a new home.

I know of no fish keeper that doesn't measure the length of a fish from one end to the other.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby NancyD » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:53 am

Well I never measured by SL until I joined Loaches.com, I thought it was a "Euro-thing". But it makes sense if you consider the tail extensions of some plecos, et al & long finned varieties of many species. You just can't count those to me anymore. SL is a much more "accurate" measurement than tip of longest barbell to tip of tail at it's longest (TL). In many ways I prefer "meat" of nose end & caudal peduncle without any additions...now that I understand what TL can mean. Even some clown loaches have tail extensions from what I've seen...albeit not often.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby Bas Pels » Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:34 am

For years I noted both: 10 (12) cm would mean sl = 10 cm; tl = 12 cm. But this was just my way of coding it. Nos I don't care that much anymore about lenth
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby redshark1 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:11 pm

Length is a very important part of the discription of any Clown Loach in just about any conversation introducing them. To not know the length is to be unable to communicate well with fellow keepers.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby Loachloach » Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:57 pm

Hey redshark1, found a statement from another clown loach owner in the link below, last post at the bottom...
It says clown loaches old 10-16 years not bigger than 8 inches..I suppose he's got no reason to lie...

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f1 ... 50734.html
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby Loachloach » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:31 pm

A bit more scientific info from the below document on clown loaches maximum size.... 30.5cm which is 12 inches....

Quote: In 2006, the biggest fish observed among 2300 specimens
caught in the Musi River (Sumatra) was 305 mm in total
length for a body weight of 469 g


https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/ird-01225687/document
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby Loachloach » Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:45 pm

And another interesting document on an experiment to breed naturally clown loaches in captivity which I am sure many would love to read....

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/d ... TEXT01.pdf

There are two interesting facts in there which I have quoted. The Legendre et al 2012 referenced data is in regards to the Musi River in Sumatra.

PH:

Quote: The pH was monitored throughout the study, although not altered to a desirable level since it
was already within the values of the previously proven window. The values 6.86-8.00 are
similar to the values in Legendre et al. 2012


Temperature:

Quote: It has been shown in a previous study were
clown loaches have been monitored over several years that a higher proportion of individuals
were sexually mature at 26-27ºC than 30-31ºC (Legendre et al. 2012), something to consider
in future studies. This fact is strengthened by the discovery of 26ºC as the optimum
temperature for clown loach egg incubation (Baras et al. 2012b), maybe this would also be
the optimum temperature for spawning since this could reveal that throughout the evolution of
this species this has been the most consistent measurement value.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby redshark1 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:17 pm

Loachloach wrote:Hey redshark1, found a statement from another clown loach owner in the link below, last post at the bottom...
It says clown loaches old 10-16 years not bigger than 8 inches..I suppose he's got no reason to lie...

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f1 ... 50734.html


Hey Loachloach, thanks for passing that on. It seems perfectly reasonable to me, though a bit vague. I didn't keep detailed records of ages and measurements but my fish were probably similar.
6 x Clown Loaches, 1f10.5", 1f9", 4m6", 1995, 6' x 18" x 18" 400l/110usgal.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby redshark1 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:05 pm

Loachloach wrote:A bit more scientific info from the below document on clown loaches maximum size.... 30.5cm which is 12 inches....

Quote: In 2006, the biggest fish observed among 2300 specimens
caught in the Musi River (Sumatra) was 305 mm in total
length for a body weight of 469 g


https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/ird-01225687/document


Hi Loachloach thanks a lot for that crucial piece of information.

2,300 wild fish caught and none over 12".

That is close to saying that Clown Loaches do not reach 16".

2,300 fish? Now that is a big study! Awesome!

I have also read that the common size for mature Clown Loaches caught for food by the fishermen in Borneo is 8-10" but I have lost my memory of the document and cannot yet re-find it.
6 x Clown Loaches, 1f10.5", 1f9", 4m6", 1995, 6' x 18" x 18" 400l/110usgal.
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Re: 16 inch Clown Loach

Postby redshark1 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:12 pm

Loachloach wrote:And another interesting document on an experiment to breed naturally clown loaches in captivity which I am sure many would love to read....

https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/d ... TEXT01.pdf

There are two interesting facts in there which I have quoted. The Legendre et al 2012 referenced data is in regards to the Musi River in Sumatra.

PH:

Quote: The pH was monitored throughout the study, although not altered to a desirable level since it
was already within the values of the previously proven window. The values 6.86-8.00 are
similar to the values in Legendre et al. 2012


Temperature:

Quote: It has been shown in a previous study were
clown loaches have been monitored over several years that a higher proportion of individuals
were sexually mature at 26-27ºC than 30-31ºC (Legendre et al. 2012), something to consider
in future studies. This fact is strengthened by the discovery of 26ºC as the optimum
temperature for clown loach egg incubation (Baras et al. 2012b), maybe this would also be
the optimum temperature for spawning since this could reveal that throughout the evolution of
this species this has been the most consistent measurement value.



Thanks again for this great info. The study itself is good but limited of course as he disappointingly failed to get the Clown loaches to lay eggs. I say disappointing as there have been reports of Clown Loaches being bred in a very large aquarium in the USA by a small commercial venture with a view to producing fish for sale.

I am quite certain my females have been "loaded" with eggs but they were never laid despite great interest from the males and much "shadowing" when the male and female race round the tank side by side (I am sure the male follows the female in this ritual).
6 x Clown Loaches, 1f10.5", 1f9", 4m6", 1995, 6' x 18" x 18" 400l/110usgal.
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