Clown loaches in the wild

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Clown loaches in the wild

Postby exasperatus2002 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:54 pm

I was looking on you tube for underwater video of clown loaches in the wild and cant find any. Find lots of amazonian video but nothing from Indonesia. Can anyone assist?
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby Loachloach » Sat Jan 28, 2017 4:59 pm

You won't find any....
It's odd for a fish species that is exported in enormous numbers....They're hiding something :roll:
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby redshark1 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:38 pm

From what I've read the rivers are turbid from washed-in soil as a consequence of logging and gold mining. A research project to study the Clown Loaches in the wild had to be cancelled because it was not possible to carry out the studies. Who knows what the current status is? :(
6 x Clown Loaches, 1f10.5", 1f9", 4m6", 1995, 6' x 18" x 18" 400l/110usgal.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby chefkeith » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:19 am

The rivers in these tropical forests are rich with dark tannins also. The peat soil in those regions is around 50ft thick. The forests are thousands and thousands of years old.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby Loachloach » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:36 am

From what I've read clown loaches inhabits clear waters, upper rivers, the deep part of rivers near mountains, flood plains of hilly areas. They do migrate due to monsoon season and to spawn, to murky and blackwater habitats but that's not where they spend all their time....That's one of the reasons we can't breed them in aquariums as we can't reproduce the migration and vastly different conditions in aquariums.

The below is an old paper on the morphological differences between clown loaches from Sumatra and Borneo but it does mention they are mostly found in rivers near mountains.

http://iktiologi-indonesia.org/wp-conte ... 0006-2.pdf

The below article is from some Indonesian magazine and states the following:

Clear stream environments provide the optimal habitat for clown loaches, but biannual monsoon flooding forces the fish to move into flooded flood plains, or murky or blackwater rivers or lakes, for 7-8 months of the year, and clown loaches are commonly found in the flood plains of hilly areas.

Breeding adults migrate to smaller waterways to spawn annually.In its native habitat, the fish is found in water with a temperature range of 77 to 86 -ªF (25 to 30 -ªC), a pH between 5.0 and 8.0, and water hardness between 5 and 12 dH.

http://indonesiatravelmagazine.com/boti ... own-loach/

There are also several papers I've found recently stating that clown loaches, despite being tropical, have the lowest temperature tolerance compared to other tropical fish in the region. Clown loach larvae die in temps above 29C, and young clown loaches above 32C, hence the adults spawn when temperatures drop during the rainy season and ideal temperature is considered to be 26C max 29C for clown loaches. The Ph values given in those studies is also quite high, between 7 and 8. Although they seem to be tolerant of many types of conditions, they are not your typical black water fish at all, at least not as adults and so far no study on artificial breeding of clown loaches has incorporated a black water or peat tank for raising them either...It is not typical of the species...although they can be found in nature in such enviroments too. In aquariums, as a result, clown loaches adapt to almost all types of conditions.

Considering there are millions of clown loaches exported every year, there is no excuse for lack of underwater videos. People have taped impossible to reach habitats before so its disturbing we've got no footage at all to look at...
Last edited by Loachloach on Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby redshark1 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:50 am

I nominate you for the mission ;-)
6 x Clown Loaches, 1f10.5", 1f9", 4m6", 1995, 6' x 18" x 18" 400l/110usgal.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby Loachloach » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:14 pm

redshark1 wrote:I nominate you for the mission ;-)


I wish I can :lol:

I've been digging some papers trying to find more info again. Clown loaches seem to be in every one of them labelled as "endangered" species...If they keep exporting in these huge numbers, and not figure out a way to breed them naturally and cheaply, there won't be clown loaches to export soon enough...The number of exported clown loaches per year is humongous, in the range of over 30 million a year and the first google search will give you a number of 50million in 2009...!!!
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby Loachloach » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:21 pm

For lack of wild habitat pictures, let me introduce my clowns in their little pond :lol:

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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby NancyD » Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:33 pm

Loachloach, I love your clown pond! I agree with chefkeith, clowns are from murky waters & hiders too. No wonder we see so few in the wild & only get babies in the trade.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby jonstfrancis » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:35 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wzrvemq-D58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeQl3w11gDU

Catching clown loaches in the wild, not much to see other than very silty river.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby Loachloach » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:04 am

If you search by "botia macracantha in the below documents about Sekayam River, you'll find clown loaches on the list of species found there.

https://media.neliti.com/media/pub/4913 ... y-2012.pdf

https://media.neliti.com/media/pub/4844 ... a-2015.pdf

Some videos of the Sekayam River, West Kalimantan, Indonesia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXvfGNADwOs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=071EWqPfmiA

And here below a video about Indonesia's dirtiest river, see the colour of that river below...I don't think that the ''muddy' look we see in some rivers out there has anything to do with tannins and peat.....I've seen the same colour in my home country...in Europe...known as the most polluted river there by the locals...It looks like all factories, mines, and people dump all their waste in those rivers....to give it that colour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr5PYFgXnYM

And here a "Bathroom Boat" in Indonesia....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scr-V8dKIX8

I am surprised there are any fish left and the colour of the water has nothing to do with what the fish actually prefer to live in naturally...
Last edited by Loachloach on Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby Loachloach » Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:13 am

Anyway, the Musi river in Sumatra, where majority of clown loaches there are caught, is not a black river habitat.

Contrary to the Siak, which is a typical black-water river where its dark brown colour reduces light penetration to a few centimeters, non-black-water rivers have a higher light availability. Accordingly, photosynthesis plays a role and therefore these rivers have a pronounced day and night cycle, as seen in the Musi river during our expedition in 2013.

The Musi river has a signifficantly lower peat coverage at 3.5% only....I posted several studies on breeding of clown loaches here on another thread, which state the larger specimens were all caught in the Musi river, ph between 7 and 8....

The two rivers Lupar and Saribas in Sarawak enclose a peninsula with protected peat swamp forest that has a peat thickness of up to 10 m (ref. 33). The estimated peat coverage for the Lupar basin is 30.5% and 35.5% for the Saribas catchment34
The Indragiri, Batanghari and Musi have a peat coverage of 11.9, 5.0 and 3.5%, respectively31.


source: http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms10155


For reference on reproducing the habitat of clown loaches in the Musi River, Sumatra and additional interesting information read the below which I posted on another forum:

Study on breeding of clown loaches:

https://www.google.ie/patents/EP226...v ... EQ6AEIGzAA

Some quotes for those not willing to read the full text:


Conditioning the adults:

In order to study the influential parameters on sexual maturation of C. macracanthus captive breeding facilities in closed circuit adapted to maintenance of this species have been designed and built on the Depok station (Indonesia). Broodstock of C. macracanthus from Sumatra (N = 66; 70% of females) and a group from Kalimantan (N = 59; 75% female) were reared at a density of 6 to 7 fish per m 3.

Each rearing tank (10 m 3) is supplied with recycled water (flow rate = 8.2 m 3 .h "') by means of a mechanical filter, a biological filter and a UV lamp ( sterilization). In order to reduce stress, the fish are isolated in a dark room. This thermally isolated room also helps regulate temperature throughout the year at a level selected between 25 ° C and 32 ° C. Each closed circuit is supplied with well water. supersaturated with gas, the water must be pre-aerated for 24 hours before being used for breeding. The monthly values of water temperature fluctuated between 30 and 32 ° C for 14 months, then thetemperature was adjusted to 26 and 27 0 C for 6 months.


Temperature:

Information related to the study of the ecology of the species in the natural environment, plus experimental studies of the effect of temperature on egg incubation's success indicates that the beach Temperature falling to around 26- 28 0 C is optimal for reproduction of the species. ....

......It does not seem, however, that the species naturally reproduce in water temperatures greater than 28.0 0 C since this reproduction would be doomed to failure because of embryo mortality.


Food:

they may in particular be fed 6 days per week in the morning with food compounds comprising for example between 35 and 45% protein and between 5 and 15% lipids; the choice of the feeding part of the knowledge of those skilled in the art, it is able to adapt this power supply if necessary. The earthworm intake at night is essential for getting good sires.

Ph:

The water used preferably has a pH between 7.0 and 8.0, a conductivity of between 100 and 300 S / cm and its oxygen concentration is between 6.0 and 8.0 mg / L.


Egg development and larvae:


Incubation of eggs in standing water resulted in an abnormal embryonic development, as evidenced by an almost total lack of movement of the end of developing embryos, and by the almost total mortality (90%) of the larvae hatching. However, incubated in the same conditions on an oscillating tray eggs develop and hatch normally obtained with more than 85% of normal larvae ie viable and active.

Indonesia, our work demonstrates a high sensitivity of eggs to water temperatures above 28 0 C (which eggs of most tropical fish develop normally), as well as temperatures below 24 ° C....

...In addition, larvae obtained show significant distortion and any of them is not viable; only the temperature range from 24 ° C to 28 0 C allowed the obtaining means hatching percentage higher than 40% with a high proportion of normal andviable larvae.....A temperature of 26 ° C is recommended for the incubation of eggs of C. macracanthus, from both populations that Sumatra Borneo

Larval rearing is not an issue, since the studies of the inventors have shown that in feeding conditions (nauplii à'Artemia excess) and a satisfactory water quality (high dissolved oxygen concentration, ammonia concentration and low nitrites, neutral pH, temperature 28-30 ° C ....) survival rates between 60 and 90% after one months of aging. After two months of aging, juveniles can be marketed.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby chefkeith » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:29 pm

Have you seen this old thread:
viewtopic.php?t=3684

In some research which I did 10+ years ago, I found out that Clown Loaches native name is Ulang Uli or Ulanguli. Haven't really done much research since then, but I'm noticing that much of the information has disappeared from the internet. Back then I read about clowns being in the Danau Sentarum in Kalimantan on the Kapuas River.

Back then I also found some info that said clown loaches were collected in Johore, Malaysia near Kulai in 1941.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby exasperatus2002 » Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:55 pm

Great info, thanks
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Re: Clown loaches in the wild

Postby Loachloach » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:59 am

In most non-english papers clown loaches are called botia macracantha now. I've tried to search with Ulang uli/ulanguli..I think they call all fish Ulang and uli is the actual part that means its a clown loach(haven't tried google translator though...just guessing :lol: because when I search for Ulang Uli...all types of Ulang pop up :lol: ) Their own papers(Sumatra/Borneo based) say clown loaches prefer clear waters and these papers are very old, over 70+ years so who knows...now there maybe no clear waters left :). During the moonsoon, rivers aren't that clear, clown loaches get stranded in other parts, and it is when they catch the baby clown loaches because that's when clown loaches breed....waiting for the temperatures to drop...The adults however, prefer upstream, clearer waters...or at least that's the conclusion I've come to based on what I've read. The papers I posted a while back have already been removed :shock:
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