Other species to keep with dojo?

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Other species to keep with dojo?

Postby Infinipede » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:51 pm

Hello all, first post... A few years back I got an aquarium for my birthday. Once it was cycled and good to go I went out expecting to just get a couple cories, but I saw a certain gold dojo loach (now named Lasagna) and it was love at first sight - also an impulse buy. My tank is much too small for him (20gal) and knowing weather loaches are a communal species, I feel bad keeping him without any others of his species. He's been there for me, even if it's in the only way a fish can, and I want him to have the best life possible.

So flash forward to now and I have enough money to get started upgrading my tank to something larger (40-60gal), and some plans forming on how to keep a larger tank in my rather cramped room (table too small for the tank to be any longer? breeder tank!) but there's a problem. I live in New York State and between the time I purchased my dojo and now, their status as an invasive organism was upgraded and I can no longer purchase one, in stores or online.

I want to know if there are any other species who a dojo might get along with in the same way they would with their own species, whether b/c they're similar in behavior or appearance or whatever. If not... well, I guess I want the "loachaholic's" opinion on breaking the law for the sake of my fish's quality of life. (IE "crossing the border" into MA or VT or the like...) Yeesh, I'm making it sound much more serious than it is - but it's still a legality issue nonetheless - hell, I think the fact that my dojo is still alive and I'm still keeping him means I'm a criminal even now. For everyone's peace of mind, I'd never release him - as somebody who's also into exotic invertebrates, I hate people who release non-native pets into the wild. They ruin both the environment and the hobbyists and caretakers who'd give these animals a good home. But I digress.

Thoughts?
Infinipede
 
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Re: Other species to keep with dojo?

Postby Diana » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:52 pm

There are some other Loaches similar in shape but a bit smaller, often sold as Peppered Loaches. I think they are similar enough in shape and behavior to get along with Dojo Loaches. Have a look through these possibilities, confirming that they thrive in similar enough conditions, and checking to see if they are available to you.

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pi ... ter-bodied
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!
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Re: Other species to keep with dojo?

Postby Bas Pels » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:54 am

As you have the dojo, which is now not legal, you should either kill it or release it. Releasing is, obviously, the wrong solution, so you should keep it.

Here, in the Neterlands, people keeping special mammals are facing a similar problem: the species they are keeping is banned. They cannot purchase it, and breeding is illegal. They are, however, allowed to give the animal a good, long life.

Perhaps this is the Dutch solution, I would not know, but it amuses me you argue for precisely the some solution
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Re: Other species to keep with dojo?

Postby Dojosmama » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:35 am

First, you are NOT a criminal by keeping a loach you purchased when it was perfectly legal to do so. Our Constitution prohibits "ex post facto" laws which punish people for doing things that were legal when they did them but become illegal later.

If you cross the border into a state where it's still legal to buy them, I'm not sure that's criminal, either. Afterall, it IS legal in the state from which you would be getting it. You would simply be housing it in your own tank. Just don't get caught "smuggling" it through, in case transporting is also illegal.

We have far too many draconian laws and regulations these days that intrude into people's very private lives -- the environment is NOT going to be harmed by folks keeping aquarium fish! This is just another power grab by a government that views itself as Omnipotent.

Now that I'm finished with my political statement, rest assured that Dojos are just fine in peaceful community tanks with other fish besides loaches. You don't have to keep another loach, although that is the ideal. Just give your dojo regular clean water and good food, and peaceful company in the form of other community fish, and he will be happy enough under the circumstances.

Some Dojos have become so tame in their tank environments that they even eat out of their human's hand. If you can do that, it will be very much like his having another Dojo for company. He will imprint on you as a companion.
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Re: Other species to keep with dojo?

Postby Infinipede » Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:02 pm

Bas Pels wrote:As you have the dojo, which is now not legal, you should either kill it or release it. Releasing is, obviously, the wrong solution, so you should keep it.

Here, in the Neterlands, people keeping special mammals are facing a similar problem: the species they are keeping is banned. They cannot purchase it, and breeding is illegal. They are, however, allowed to give the animal a good, long life.

Perhaps this is the Dutch solution, I would not know, but it amuses me you argue for precisely the some solution


Reading on the New York State website, this is indeed the case. I can't breed or sell him but it's okay for me to keep him and I intend to give him the best care I can within my budget and ability. So I believe it's the same in the U.S., though maybe it's a New York thing, we did after all used to be a Dutch colony before we were British :P

Diana wrote:There are some other Loaches similar in shape but a bit smaller, often sold as Peppered Loaches. I think they are similar enough in shape and behavior to get along with Dojo Loaches. Have a look through these possibilities, confirming that they thrive in similar enough conditions, and checking to see if they are available to you.

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pi ... ter-bodied


The species we seem to get here are clown loaches, obviously, occasionally a kuhli loach and some variety of botia. I feel like I may have seen a peppered loach for sale once or twice. I'm in an area with a few local stores that might be able to special order me a peppered loach or similar - I'll do some checking around. Thanks!

Dojosmama wrote:First, you are NOT a criminal by keeping a loach you purchased when it was perfectly legal to do so. Our Constitution prohibits "ex post facto" laws which punish people for doing things that were legal when they did them but become illegal later.

If you cross the border into a state where it's still legal to buy them, I'm not sure that's criminal, either. Afterall, it IS legal in the state from which you would be getting it. You would simply be housing it in your own tank. Just don't get caught "smuggling" it through, in case transporting is also illegal.

We have far too many draconian laws and regulations these days that intrude into people's very private lives -- the environment is NOT going to be harmed by folks keeping aquarium fish! This is just another power grab by a government that views itself as Omnipotent.

Now that I'm finished with my political statement, rest assured that Dojos are just fine in peaceful community tanks with other fish besides loaches. You don't have to keep another loach, although that is the ideal. Just give your dojo regular clean water and good food, and peaceful company in the form of other community fish, and he will be happy enough under the circumstances.

Some Dojos have become so tame in their tank environments that they even eat out of their human's hand. If you can do that, it will be very much like his having another Dojo for company. He will imprint on you as a companion.


I'm more angry at the people who caused the government to notice an invasive species problem in the first place, and the total prohibition of these animals here when they're not prohibited in seemingly the rest of the Northeast U.S... I of course worry about invasive species and the impact on endemic animals but I also wonder if there isn't a better way that's a compromise between pet owners and environmentalists. I know many people fall under both categories, and I like to think most aquarists are responsible people who wouldn't release their fish into non-native wild waterways!

I did check the regulations and yes, it's fine for me to keep him, thank god. Transporting is definitely illegal, unfortunately, but it's not like there's a border check between VT/MA/CT and NY, so getting caught is unlikely if I decide to go that route... but it's still my last resort.

I'd like to get some more cories at some point and they seem to get along just fine with my dojo. I keep the temperature at a point I think is reasonable for both fish, on the higher end of coldwater and the lower end of tropical, though if/when I go for more cories I know there's a species that does nicely in coldwater tanks I'd like to try and find.

I've heard they will hand-feed if they're comfortable enough and I've been able to do it a few times. Maybe I'm pale enough that my finger resembles another dojo, who knows? :lol: I think it's a good idea, regardless if I can get him some companionship from similar animals, if I can at least help fulfill some of the community/social needs, I'll do it.
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Re: Other species to keep with dojo?

Postby Bas Pels » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:52 am

Infinipede wrote: So I believe it's the same in the U.S., though maybe it's a New York thing, we did after all used to be a Dutch colony before we were British :P

That's right. Not our ancestors best deal, swapping NY for Surinam.

There was even one day a vote whether English or Dutch would be the national language in NY. We lost by 1 vote :(
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Re: Other species to keep with dojo?

Postby Dojosmama » Thu May 04, 2017 10:57 pm

I would like to know what species of cory that is which does well in colder tanks. I have two aquariums with cold water fish in them, and would love to add cories, but the only ones I know about are tropical. Can you enlighten me on the species that isn't?
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Re: Other species to keep with dojo?

Postby Diana » Thu May 04, 2017 11:11 pm

Best site for Catfish research is Planet Catfish.
Here is a link to one of the cooler water Cories that are very common. This site has several ways to do more searches.

https://www.planetcatfish.com/common/sp ... ies_id=271
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!
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