Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

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Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Kediil » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:25 pm

So. I have seriously come to love loaches. And I found these guys at my LFS recently and had to take them home.
All three were about the same size when I got them.
One is definitely taking place as the biggest.
The second is a little behind on size, but is nicely plump and sleek.

The third has hardly grown, and has developed indentations in the nape region, behind his dorsal fin, and slightly further down his tail, right about the point where it starts to flatten out the most.

Since I was waiting on my account to be approved, and I had already done a LOT of reading, I went ahead and ordered medicated foods from Angels Plus and I started the tank on them last night. (Other inhabitants: 7 glass cats, 1 betta)

I did 1.5 to 2 days of no feeding.

I started the Dewormer 3 last night. (Levamisole HCL) - Everybody ate well and quickly.
Instructions are, feed once a day, for 2 days. Repeat 3 times total, 2 to 3 weeks apart.

I have the Antibiotic flakes, 1 (gram-negative) and 2 (gram positive), to be fed for 10 days each in between.
I also got some of their Prevent and Recover flakes for after.
And since I was there anyhow, I picked up some Black Label Vivid Colour flakes, and some Earthworm sticks. :)


So I'm here, because I need to know if someone(s) more knowledgeable than I can tell me anything I don't know, or need to know, or should be aware of, or even just encouragement if I'm doing things right.

And of course, most important. Pictures.
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(For larger images: http://imgur.com/a/1xZYs)


And my biggest, so far healthy guy.
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Kediil
 
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby NancyD » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:57 pm

I'm no expert but it looks more like an injury than skinny disease to me. I have not kept dojos but I've had loaches with "skinny disease". My most similar loach to yours was a kuhli that became "bent" in several areas in a densely planted tank. When I moved them to a larger less planted tank it eventually almost straightened out to a normal appearance. It lived at least 8 years before I moved & rehomed them all.

I think it's good you're trying to treat them for parasites & bacteria but it may just not compete well for food. There is often an "alpha" (dominant) fish but also sometimes an "omega" smallest, feeding on leftovers. I have seen obese dojos too so be careful not to overfeed.

If you have an extra tank it might be good to separate this loach for a while after treatments. A few months of good feeding may help it catch up.

I also need to say bettas prefer higher temps than dojos, I "think" glass cats do too. Those are tropical fish but dojos are not.

Good luck & let us know how it gets on.
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Diana » Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:41 am

Perhaps isolating the affected loach could help.
If this one is the lowest ranking fish, then it will be able to eat better. You can also flavor the food with garlic to tempt this one's appetite. Look up Seachem's Garlic Guard.
You can also add vitamins to whatever you are feeding by looking for liquid vitamins for caged birds. A drop on the dry food at every meal will help the fish.

If it is infested with internal parasites or other problems, then there is the possibility that the other fish are also infested, so continue feeding them the same foods if you separate the fish.

Since you are feeding medicated foods, and not depending on medicine dissolved in the water you could add a UV sterilizer to the tank. This would highly likely kill off any organisms drifting in the water, so minimize re-infection.

Do plenty of water changes, especially targeting any slower moving areas, and any place the Loaches seem to hang out more. This will remove a lot of the possible parasite eggs and other infectious organisms. Increasing the water changes will also help keep the water quality very good for the best health of the fish.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Kediil » Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:51 am

Bettas do prefer higher temps, and Glass Cats are from the same region. Ambient water temp in my room is about 77 degrees.
These dojos *can* live at higher temps, but it can really shorten their lifespan. I plan to move them to a larger tank in the future, probably in 4-6 months, at which point I'll see about targeting their preferred temp zone. I hadn't known the difference in temp prior to purchasing, as I'd been looking mostly at Kuhlis beforehand, these goldens being a bit spontaneous.

I do watch to make sure the little one is getting food, and I put 2-4 wafers/sticks in after the main food, spread out in different areas of the tank. I have a fair bit of flow in the tank, so the flake food swirls through the water column really well, the cats love it, and the remaining flake ends up being all over the bottom. I have a sand substrate, so nobody really has to fight for food in a single area.

Once I've run the meds, as a precautionary if nothing else, I'll see about moving him into my ten gallon. All it has in it right now is a rescued balloon molly. And plenty of hideys in the wood there.

I'll see about doing a UV on the tank too.

Diana wrote:You can also add vitamins to whatever you are feeding by looking for liquid vitamins for caged birds. A drop on the dry food at every meal will help the fish.


Would it be ok to do this with medicated food though? Since I'm going to be running the antibiotics between dewormer.
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Diana » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:33 pm

Medication and vitamins are totally different. Sick fish can use both.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Kediil » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:44 pm

Diana wrote:Medication and vitamins are totally different. Sick fish can use both.


Thanks much! :) Just wasn't sure if the vitamins would degrade the medication before it was ingested.
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby NancyD » Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:41 pm

What size is this dojo? If it's only 2 or 3 inches a 10g might be ok for a short while to recover. But if it's much more than 4 inches I'd leave it in the bigger tank. Make sure you have a tight lid if you move it...well, on both tanks really.

I've never added extra vitamins to fish food except when I made my own...I don't think I'd bother & don't know if there could be problems from excess.
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Kediil » Sat Jul 01, 2017 8:54 pm

NancyD wrote:What size is this dojo? If it's only 2 or 3 inches a 10g might be ok for a short while to recover. But if it's much more than 4 inches I'd leave it in the bigger tank. Make sure you have a tight lid if you move it...well, on both tanks really.

I've never added extra vitamins to fish food except when I made my own...I don't think I'd bother & don't know if there could be problems from excess.


Sorry, I had actually gotten into those details the first time I wrote my OP, but when I went to submit the post, it asked me to log in again, and then it 'took me back to the previous page', right to the main forum page and I lost the whole thing. I simply forgot to re-add it in my frustration.

The three and others are currently in a lightly planted 20 gallon with high filtration. None of the loaches is over 3" as yet. I am planning a markedly larger tank in the future. Either a 30 gallon breeder or a 40-55 gallon, depending on what else I'll want to stock in it. It will be a few months down the line, but not too far off. Should certainly be before they hit 4 inches, granted I haven't seen any info on how quickly these guys grow. In the meantime, they have lots of ground space, a big wood piece with hideys and lots of sitting room, and I do 20%-30% water changes every five days or so, and water testing every couple of weeks.
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Diana » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:14 am

A 20 for some juveniles works well.
Dojos definitely get large enough to need a 4' long tank, or larger. Upper area is not so critical, except that a larger volume dilutes the wastes better between the water changes. You can get other fish that thrive in the low temperature to swim in the upper areas of the tank.

Have you been treating them with anything? Any luck?
If they do have internal parasites and you kill the parasites the fish should respond quickly with improved appetite and start gaining weight, filling out. It will take a little while for the thinnest one to look better filled out, but it will happen.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!
Diana
 
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Kediil » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:29 am

Diana wrote:Dojos definitely get large enough to need a 4' long tank, or larger.


Hence why I figured a 30 breeder at minimum. It would lack the height, but has substantially more floor space. A larger tank will give me both the footprint, and more space to have other stock.

Diana wrote:Have you been treating them with anything? Any luck?


Of course it's still an assumption on parasites. One of the loaches is really good looking, the next is good just smaller, and then the little crip-back. As someone else mentioned, it could be some sort of trauma. I *have* noticed him wedging himself into some of the smaller crevices of my wood. Simply a better safe than sorry. Round one of the dewormer done, almost with the gram-negative flakes, then on to the gram positive, and do it all over again twice more. Time will tell.
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Kediil » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:42 pm

To update. We've completed the deworming. In between I had a major tank meltdown that killed off my shrimps and took down
a glass cat, and ultimately had to move the loaches and others into a tiny tank (multiple daily changes small) while I got the larger under control. They've all been back in the 20 now (I've got a 60 I'm resealing that I hope to have up and running within a month or so!).

But back. Deworming complete.
Dent hasn't lost his dents, he's still got the defined dent at the front, and the back slightly so. But overall, he has *definitely* put on size and sleeked up. He's on par with the other loach, the third being the biggest by just a bit.
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Re: Golden Dojo Loach - Pinched back - Skinny disease?

Postby Diana » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:58 pm

Recovery will take a bit of time, but seeing the little guy (gal?) starting to grow a bit, and fill in some sure says you are on the right track with treatment.

Some wormers can kill shrimp. If you need to do another round of treatment remove any shrimp. They don't really belong with larger fish, anyway. Almost any fish will eat the shrimp.

Shrimp cannot be eaten by fish that are smaller than about an inch. Some slightly larger fish with tiny mouths are also generally shrimp-safe. But I would not put shrimp in the same tank with any fish over about 2" long.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!
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