Well i did it, new Dario *pics*

[Spankenstyne]

The tank has been cycled for about a week now with everything holding stable so i finally took the plunge into Loachdom and wow are we very happy already. Ideally i know an older established tank is preferred, but we really wanted to make this a loach tank first, with other fish eventually as "decoration"

These lil' guys are a riot to watch even for the few hours we've had them so far. I took a few pictures, but it was after lights-out so i had to use a flash and got some washing out of the dark colours but they still turned out *ok* all things considered. Just wanted to share and thank you guys for the help & great information so far.

We did actually get 3 ( 2 more coming tomorrow ) but the pics with all 3 in them were ones that didn't turn out.








I'll keep working on the photo skills and will have some better ones one of these days lol.

[Spankenstyne]

The last couple that turned out alright. I actually like these two pics better than the others

[Spankenstyne]

Showing some nice yellow/golds today. Without flash & still practicing lol.

[Martin Thoene]

Great pics! I can see that you have potential to get good at this! The "washing out" isn't the flash. Once the lights go out B. dario will pale down in colour, so you've actually got good photos of them in that state.

Are they quite little? The reason I ask is the head size. They look like they need a good feeding up. They look somewhat undernourished.

Martin.

[newshound]

the do look like they need a good feeding or 12.
I lost 1/2 my dario's after I bought them and I'd guess the store lost the whole tank after that.

With loaches I always try to buy more of them then I need and return the ones I don't want if they all survive. Of course I never return any of them because they can have a high mortality rate or else I just can't part with them
god this loach thing is more addictive then crack!

[mikev]

You know, the top view on one of the pictures makes me think that putting them on anti-parasite meds may not be such a bad idea. Just in case, of course.

[clownloach]

Cool pictures, better than a magazine i think.

[Spankenstyne]

Wow thanks for the great feedback.
We've only had them a few days but have 5 in total now, and they are showing early and light signs of ich (good call on the parasites). They actually showed it when we got them home so i figured i'd get all 5 and treat them at once instead of the 3 then treating, then getting a couple more down the road and treating again . The temp is at 87 now and will be so for a couple weeks after all signs of ich dissappear. So far all seem to be acting normal and loachy with the higher temp not seeming to stress anyone out yet.

Good to know they look a little underfed, i'm kinda paranoid about overfeeding but have been giving them a mix of sinking shrimp pellets and algae wafers so far plus whatever the piggy goldfish miss or make a mess of with the flakes. Sounds like i can bump up the feeding a bit then.

Also good to know about the washing out of the colors, i was a bit worried yesterday am just after the lights came on a couple of them looked quite light and washed out which worried me but they looked fine when i got home from work. Nice to know it's normal and i can expect it.

They are pretty small, a couple of them are maybe just over 2" and the other 3 are under 2". Tough to get an accurate size with the glass and the fact they are pretty active.

[Mark in Vancouver]

Have you just raised the temperature, or are you treating for ich as well? I would do both, but use the ich meds at between half and full strength. Once that is clear, after a couple of weeks, I'd treat with specific anti-internal parasite meds. They look less robust than I'm used to. But they're jolly good fish!

[Spankenstyne]

Just raising the temps so far. I've read in a couple of places that meds might be too harsh for loaches and that heat alone should work on the ich? I've only had them for a few days so far so i was a little hesitant to jump into any medicating especially in a planted aquarium. So you guys think there might also be more at work than the ich?

[mikev]

Just raising the temps so far.

This may make things worse, not better.

Raising temp does two things:
1. It makes the parasite cycle faster (and thus spread faster)
2. It makes the fish slightly weaker (less oxigen).
It would not kill off the parasite at 87F (some say that temp around 91F does kill the parasite efficiently---never tried this)

==> if you are sure you do have some ich, treat it. If your tank is planted, salt is probably out, so you need to use regular meds.

[Spankenstyne]

Yeah i understand that it makes the cycle go faster, but what i've read is that above 85 makes ich unable to reproduce. Some seem to suggest keeping it 86 or above (i'm at 87 atm) it will cycle out, and being unable to reproduce the ones already there will die off at the naturally quickened life cycle with no new parasites due to no reproduction. I've lowered the water level slightly so that the spraybar is really agitating the surface well, to help with gas exchange to make up for the less oxygen levels due to the heat.

The lower oxygen levels are something i'm really keeping an eye on and so far nobody's gasping at the surface or acting weird in there. One benefit of the heat should also be a boosted immune system, at least according to some sources so hopefully on some level that helps too.

A question i have on the meds though, are they safe for the bacterial colonies or will they be wiping them making my tank cycle again?
I'm thinking of trying some medication as you guys seem to be proponents of it and you'd definitely not do anything to harm your loaches. I just was pretty leery after reading a few different sources not recommending meds with fish like loaches due to their lesser or lack of scales, it just was made to sound kinda risky to me.

I'm 99.9% certain we have ich in there. I haven't had fish for several years but the many years that i did have fish previously usually once per tank it was something i dealt with, but back then it was nukage with the meds

At least this time out it seems to be very early on with just a few spots here and there.

[Mark in Vancouver]

Don't rely on that temperature advice. You can use Ich medications safely at lower doses, and then you're actively killing the Ich as it reproduces, knocking out a generation. I think it's the combination of Ich meds, water changes, and higher temps that cure it the most quickly. You want to be rid of it within a week or ten days - not two weeks. That's just too hot for loaches.

I would recommend an Ich med with malachite and formalyn. Very poisonous, but fairly easy to cleanse from the tank. Remove your charcoal filter before dosing the tank. Add an air stone for improved O2 levels.

Do a 50% water change and then medicate the tank once with half the dose. Wait three days and repeat. Keep it up until two treatments are complete without signs of Ich on the fish. Then insert a new carbon filter and lower the temperature gradually. Keep up the water changes, but go to 35 or 40% once a week.

And THEN deal with the internal parasites.

[Spankenstyne]

Are those safe for plants?

[mikev]

Formalyn -- yes.
Malachite Green -- no.

(Source of info: Peter's FAQ, for example)

--------------

Alternative approach (this is what I'm doing right now, with new clowns):
Ich Guard at 1/2 dosage.
(Full dosage would hurt loaches, but 1/2 dosage works perfectly so far).

(Notice that there is also Ich Guard II which is specially weakened for loaches. Also notice that Ich Guard says that there is no need to raise the temp,... but obviously it is much more effective if you do.)


I'm somewhat afraid of Malachite since it is also considered dangerous for loaches, at least some FAQ's state so and, worse, I lost my first for clowns possibly because of this.