Loach ID needed

[fusQer]

I went by the LFS yesterday and they had some new botias labeled "Polka Dot Botia" for 4.99 each. I got three. However I think they mixed two species in the tank, the Histrionica and the Kubotai. The reason for this belief is that two of the fish look the same, but the odd one out has no lateral stripe like the other two. Can someone ID these for me?

#1:


#2


I also found a huge stray Pakistani Loach in a Cichlid tank at the store, they let me have him for $5. I just want to confirm that he infact is a Paki Loach, here is his pic:




thanks!

[Mark in Vancouver]

The first three are Botia histrionica - or possibly B. kubotai, but they're very similar when immature. The last three are Botia almorhae, the Yoyo Loach.

[stephen]

ARE U SHURE U GOT THAT RIGHT MARK !

[Mark in Vancouver]

One can never be sure of much in this life.

[fusQer]

i was hoping you'd tell me something i dont know but thanks for the confirmation on the paki botia.

regardless, the 3 other fish, you think they are all the same? either kuboita or histrionica?

[Mark in Vancouver]

The fish in the first picture may be more doubtful. We've had lots of conversations here about id-ing juvenile Botias with similar markings. The diamond shapes with grey markings sometimes split and become more symmetrical - that would indicate B. kubotai. On the other hand, B. histrionica can be extremely varied when young. You kind of have to wait and see.

Both species, IME, do very well in mixed Botia tanks, have similar behaviour, and are great little loaches. If you get some, get three or more of each similar species you can find. They're super-social.

A third (debatable) species, Botia rostrata, has markings that are unique as well, but they retain their vertical bars. People on this forum have had some surprises with these immature fish, so enjoy the suspense.

And (one hates to fuss), Pakistani Loach is the preferred term, better yet, Botia almorhae or Yoyo Loach. "Paki" is a derogatory, racist term that us puritanical loach-geeks would prefer not to associate with the hobby. B. almorhae are found in both Pakistan and India, and possibly elsewhere.

[fusQer]

hmm i didnt even consider the third botia which you mention. i guess ill just be suspensed until they grow up.

my aquarium is 55gallons, and was intended to be solely a plant tank with some tetras here and there, but i got a snail problem that came from plants and was told to get clown loaches to snort them up. so i got three 2.5" clowns and fell in love with them and their behavior. i had no idea there were so many types of loaches. i also read in my aquarium plants book that pakistani loaches make good planted tank fish, and myself being of pakistani origin, just had to get them then i found these other ones, which ill assume are kubotai's for now. so all in all, i have 3 2.5" clowns, 3 1.5" kubotai's, 4 pakistani's 5", 3", 3", 2.5". the 3 kubotai's are currently getting dosed with maracyn I&II as i read they mostly have the wasting disease. originally i got 7 baby pakistani loaches, they all died within a week, no idea why, but i think internal parasites.

the linguistics of the "paki" comment is odd- in europe i think it is derogatory, but here in america, myself and all my pakistani friends (born and raised in the states) refer to each other as "paki" just for short. personally i like referring to the fish as lohachata's, much more fun to say than almorhae but alas the name has changed. who gets to change them?

[sophie]

the linguistics of the "paki" comment is odd- in europe i think it is derogatory, but here in america, myself and all my pakistani friends (born and raised in the states) refer to each other as "paki" just for short.

it's certainly offensive where I am (Birmingham, England; which has large communities from a variety of ethnic minorities). One of the reasons it's so un-useable is because idiots used it to refer to anyone who looked as if they might have come from anywhere in the Indian subcontinent, not just Pakistan. "You all look the same, you paki bastards" being the implication. I've only ever heard it used as a term of abuse or by people who claim it's not derogatory - but then make statements beginning "I'm not racist but..." It would probably be acceptable from one (almost certainly young ) person of pakistani descent to another - and only if they were friends! And it would definitely offend a lot of people listening to it even under those cicumstances. As loaded a term as, for example, "nigger", and it hasn;t been adopted by a young community in the same way that "nigger" has. It always sounds to me as if it ought to have "fucking" in front of it and "bastard" after it, and it makes me very uncomfortable. I was a linguist in a previous life, and i think there's a lot to be said for reclaiming damaging words and taking the sting out of them, but in this part of the world at least I think it's going to be another generation at least before that's widely possible.

personally i like referring to the fish as lohachata's, much more fun to say than almorhae but alas the name has changed. who gets to change them?

I don't know! I like lohachata too; but yoyo is just soooo much easier to say...

[Martin Thoene]

Errrr sophie . I know you're having a linguistics discussion here, but please remember the niceties of the loach forum language

You could always take it to the Off-Topic Forum. It's a valid discussion, but not for here.

Martin.

[sophie]

Errrr sophie . I know you're having a linguistics discussion here, but please remember the niceties of the loach forum language

You could always take it to the Off-Topic Forum. It's a valid discussion, but not for here.

Martin.

I was vaguely on-topic by the end...
apologies, anyway.