Clown With Mouth Problem

[BiteSize57]

Hi, all. I'm new here and have been reading some of the archived posts but couldn't quite find my particular situation. I'm at my wit's end. I've got a 3 inch clown who has a "damaged" mouth. It's possible that he cut it on something in the 29 gallon tank. The bottom half is white and the barbels are ragged looking. The top half is slightly shorter than normal and the barbels are shredded. His mouth stays open all the time, is all white in and around it, and he is panting.

I first thought it was just a fungus and treated with a full course of MelaFix and PimaFix and salt. When that didn't work, I treated with a five day course of Maracyn. Then I tried a five day course of Maracyn and Maracyn II. That gave only a very slight improvement. He's currently in a 5 gallon tank so treating him will be easier. I just finished another course of Maracyn II and PimaFix. Currently I'm trying Maracyn and PimaFix for a five day minimum course. I also just added an air stone to that tank. He either cannot or will not eat. He seems to show interest in looking at food but doesn't try to eat. I've tried bloodworms, brine shrimp, tubifex worms, shrimp pellets, frozen shrimp, algae discs, and flakes. There are snails in the 5 gallon, but he's not showing any interest in those either. He's starting to waste away and I'm afraid I'm going to lose him. I have some vitamins coming that should arrive tomorrow. I'll try anything at this point.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Of course he's my favorite and I'll cry over this one . All the water specs are good (nitrate 30 in a well planted tank) and I do weekly 20-25% changes but with limited gravel vacs since it's a heavily planted tank. I just don't know what else to do. Thanks for any and all help anyone can give. Sorry this is so long but I'm desperate.

Mindy

[shari]

Hi Mindy, and welcome to LOL.

Sorry to hear about your clown. We've heard of several stories regarding clowns and mouth issues. Most seem to remain unaswered as to cause...

Myself, I'd ditch the Pimafix. IME botia species and clowns HATE the stuff. I actually lost several yo yos and other fish when I treated with it. If you saw any improvement with the Maracyns, I'd try another course with both in your 5g tank.

What is your substrate? Is it possible something is too rough? Clowns are always rooting around in the substrate and it may have injured his mouth/barbels...

Also, nitrates at 30 are a bit high for clowns who really need very clean water. Try to do smaller, more frequent water changes and see if that and the Maracyn's show any improvement. Whatever food you try should be soft, and VERY easy to eat since having a mouth in that condition would surely make eating anything that requires much movement difficult.

Wish I could be more help, but I definitely would waterchange until you get every trace of the smell of Pimafix out of the tank.

[mikev]

Hi, Mindy,

If you think this might be a bacterial infection, then the thing to try is a stronger antibiotic, like tetrocycline.

I don't think there is any risk involved since your loach is an a separate tank, and TC occassionally does wonders.

Best of luck!

[BiteSize57]

Thanks, Shari and Mike. I "think" he may be improving a little. He's "out and about" more and seems to be curious about the betta in the tank next to his. His barbels appear to be growing back on the bottom and his mouth isn't as wide open as it was. Although I didn't actually see him eating tonight, it looked like he was from across the room. I had tried some frozen mosquito larvae. I used flake and blood worms last night and he may have eaten some when I wasn't looking since his stomach didn't look quite so hollow this a.m. I also added some vitachem vitamins last night. I'm currently doing the maracyn in the a.m. and pimafix/melafix in the p.m. He does seem to be responding. I'm afraid to stop doing anything I'm doing right now since he seems to be showing improvement. I'll remember about the PimaFix in the future.

The 5 gallon tank's nitrate is only 10. It's 30 in the 29 g. I used fluorite substrate in the 29. I've since learned about it's sharp edges and cats and loaches. And I thought I did ALL the research before using that. So far, the other clown in the 29 is doing great. So great in fact, that I've started calling him "Fat Boy". He's about to get big enough to move into the 55. If "Little Man" recovers from this mess, I'm going to go ahead and move him to the 55.

I'll keep a close eye on him this weekend. If he keeps showing signs of improvement, I'll stay the current course. If he worsens, I'll try a round of tetracycline. Keep your fingers crossed for me. Thanks again.

Mindy

[Lotus]

I had a disease with similar symptoms in my loach tank. In the end, it wiped out all but one of my loaches (there had been nine). I don't know what it was, but the clowns would have an open mouth, but otherwise look fine. A few days later, the ones with the open mouths were dead. The mouths on mine didn't look red or inflamed or show any kind of growth on them, they were just enlarged. I also tried Maracyn I and Maracyn II, and every other med I had over the course of a few weeks.

Although I had quarantined two newcomers to the tank, I had only quarantined them for 2 weeks. I guess it should have been more like 8 weeks, as they were all fine for several weeks after I added them to the tank. It really was the saddest point of my fishkeeping, having my loaches die one by one, with nothing working for them.

Of course, one symptom similar to yours doesn't mean it's the same disease.

I really hope yours pulls through and you find a treatment that works.

[BiteSize57]

Sunday night, no further improvement. After a water change tonight and tomorrow a.m., I'll start with tetracycline. <Keeping my fingers crossed>

[BiteSize57]

An update on the "Little Guy". His mouth has improved significantly after a full round of Maracyn and Mela/Pima and he actually closes it now from time to time. I've been battling a recycling of the tank all this week with daily (sometimes twice) water changes (he loves them). I haven't added any new meds for over a week because of the recycle. His mouth, as I said, has improved significantly but, he still will not eat. He still shows interest in the food but just won't eat. I've moved all the clowns into the 55 and am considering moving him back into the 29 where, although he won't be with another clown, he won't be completely alone (platties, guppies, cories & 2 small yoyos). I'm wondering if he's not eating because he's all alone in that 5g tank as he seems extremely interested in the betta tank next to him. I don't think putting him in the 55 with the other clowns right now may be a good idea because of the food competition issue. He really needs to fatten up. I'm also considering the tetracycline route.

Any thoughts? Thanks, y'all.

[mikev]

Did you try frozen bloodworms?

(I had a similar non-eating problem about three weeks ago, the loach checked other food but did not eat. Mark suggested bloodworms, which worked great... He ate bloodworms only for about a week, then he started eating flakes but only if I also dropped a couple of bloodworms into the tank...)

hth.

[BiteSize57]

I've tried everything. I've tried bloodworms (frozen & dried), brine shrimp (frozen & dried), tubifex worms (dried), daphnia, shrimp pellets, algae discs, and flakes (3 kinds). He shows interest but just doesn't eat. I tried frozen mosquito larvae on him tonight. Lots of interest, but no nibble. With all that food, it's no wonder I've had to do so many water changes. Good thing he likes them.

I wonder if the pH is a big issue right now. It's about 8.0 in that 5g and is 7.6 in the 29 (CO2 injection). I wonder......

[mikev]

I wonder if the pH is a big issue right now. It's about 8.0 in that 5g and is 7.6 in the 29 (CO2 injection). I wonder......

It might be. It is certainly a problem on the other end, a Ph below 6.0 stops some loaches from eating (happened here once). 7.5 is said to be the upper limit for clowns.

[BiteSize57]

Thanks to everybody who offered advice and experience. I put the "Little Guy" back in the 29 last night (acclimated him of course) and he buddied up with my old cory and they were hanging out at the feeder ring (but he wasn't eating, just looking). I was encouraged though. This a.m. he was hiding in a corner vertically (fairly normal for him). This p.m. he was wedged in a corner in some vals and would not move. I tried to get him to move and realized that he was just too weak/sick. I put him back in the 5 but he was so weak and "drawn up" that he couldn't swim and just drifted on his side. I finally "bit the bullet" and broke out the clove oil.

RIP Little Guy.....sorry it took me so long to end the pain.....