urgent HELP! ich treatment questions

[fusQer]

i have 4 botias (3 kubotai, 1 sidthimunki) in a 10g Q tank. they all are flashing, have white or yellow spots, are very active, and are eating. im not sure if they have velvet or ich. i raised temperature from 80 to 86 over 36 hours, put about 1-2 teaspoons of aquarium salt in there every 4-6 hours. now after 24 hrs of 86 degrees, all the botias are at hte bottom panting, and listless. is this from too much heat? i turned the heater off and put some cooler water in there with a 20% water change. but im sure the temperature change will shock them too, but at least htey can breath. i had the water level lowered so the HOB filter could create bubbles.

my question is, do i continue the treatment with temperature at 86 and salt? i also put in half dose of green malachite (quick ick cure) and did a 40% water change 5 hours after that. this was at the same time i put in the heater and salt (about 36 hours ago). i also kept the lights off and tank covered with a towel to keep light out.

there is also a 1" calvus cichlid (peaceful) in the tank that i just recently acquired (thus it is in the Q tank). i had no other tanks so i had no choice but to take the 4 botias and throw them in there too. the calvus shows no signs of ich, has no breathing problems, no flashing, nothing. they have been in the same Q tank for 3 days now.

[Lotus]

I think what your fish are experiencing is a low amount of dissolved oxygen, which comes from a combination of the high heat and the medication.

I generally don't think it's a good idea to mix medicines with the heat/salt treatment. Personally, I haven't had good results with salt/heat treatments for ich, so I always just medicate. The only treatment I have been sucessful with is CopperSafe, added at 1/4 doses every 4 hours until at full dose. If you see signs of stress when adding meds (like gasping or seeming extremely listless) it's a good idea to do a water change. I hear more tales of loaches lost to medication than to ich, most of the time.

To relieve the stress on your fish you should increase the aeration in the tank, either with an airstone or by lowering the water level so the filter splashes the surface more (assuming you have a hang on back type of filter).

I know everyone has their own methods for dealing with ich, and hopefully someone else will chime in. It sounds more like it might be velvet. There are some pics of ich and velvet here to help you decide: http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#Velvet

[fusQer]

ok thanks for the reply. i have as i mentioned an HOB filter with water lowered to aerate the tank for o2. ill turn the heater down a few degrees to help the fish breath better, although i odnt know if thats hte right hting to do?

i just got back from walmart and got Ick Clear from Jungle, it doesn't seem to have malachite green, but rather "victoria green, acriflavine". does that mean it is safe for loaches and tetras?

[shari]

I'd use it at 1/2 strength, or 1/2 in the am and 1/2 in the pm. And watch their behavior after adding it. And do a largish water change before hand with a good gravel vacuuming to get rid of as much of the parasite hiding in the substrate as you can. Be sure the temp of the treated water you add back is very close to the temp of the tank. You're right that rapid temp changes is stressful for your fish.

[fusQer]

What are the symptoms I'm looking for with malachite green overdosing?

[shari]

I don't know of any specific symptoms to look for. What I meant was for you to observe their behavior, and if you saw any signs of obvious stress, do an immediate water change to eliminate those symptoms if possible.

A good way to lose fish is to treat them, or change something in their environment, and not take time to observe their reactions to the change before assuming all is well. The 'safe for' info on medicines is not always correct in terms of different fish in differing tanks...

[fusQer]

well they all seem to be breathing rapidly. but if i do a 50% water change, imo they will just stress more. so i thaught ill turn the temp from 86 to 83, but that stresses them too. so then i just fed them to make them happy, at least they ate...

[mikev]

I did a Google on "malachite green overdosing" and it came up with recommendations for overdosing for koi's which are in essense
1. Water change.
2. Increase airation.
3. Put back the carbon filter.

http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:6j ... clnk&cd=10

This refers to acriflavine, malachite green, potassium permanganate and formalin overdosings. Of course koi is not a loach, but it is close enough...

Probably worthwhile to google more but airation seems to be quite applicable.

[shari]

Yep, what he said...