What to do now???

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murry the moray
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:58 pm

What to do now???

Post by murry the moray » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:40 pm

I love my fishtank... I have enjoyed this 55gal. in several incarnations for 8 or so years now... now I find myself at an impass.. I think I made a stupid mistake...
I currently have a 15" moray eel and a 4" flying fox. Mostly they get along, some nipping by the fox, but rarely. mostly they stay away from each other, except sometimes they sit next to each other. So my problem is I have 2 fish I like but mostly never see.
I would love some advice on what some options are. I could give 1 of the fish back to the pet store, and add???? I could keep both and add???
The problem as I see it is both my fish seem scary to most other fish I have had in the past, neons and other small fish. While the only agression I have seen was by the fox, he would chase others away at feeding time, but mostly even then he eats his and the others eat theirs. It is just that with 2 big fish i fear others will hide and be scared, then die.
So ideally i could have 2-3 fish about 4" or so? Right? Or 1 fish of decent size.
Thanks for reading and please chime in.
Here is a short video, enjoy.
uh oh it seems i do not know how to add a video. I guess cut and paste as i try to figure it out.

<object><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true"></param><param name="movie" value="http://www.facebook.com/v/2448617952033"></param><embed src="http://www.facebook.com/v/2448617952033" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="1"></embed></object>

murry the moray
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: What to do now???

Post by murry the moray » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:41 pm

No you cannot cut and paste, I guess photobucket is next facebook failed.

murry the moray
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: What to do now???

Post by murry the moray » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:55 pm

sorry here I try again...

http://s597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56 ... elfox1.mp4

no

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf" flashvars="file=http%3A%2F%2Fvid597.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ftt56%2Fbobodaclownxxx%2Feelfox1.mp4">

no

Image

got it! let me go see.

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: What to do now???

Post by Diana » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:48 pm

When fish do not get along it is better not even to try. Keep only fish that will get along. Here are some ideas, but remember that each species has its own needs, and within any species some individual fish may be more aggressive or more shy than average.

1) Fish eat other fish. Never combine large and small fish. If the small fish is 1/4 the size of the large fish it is highly likely the small fish will get eaten, even if the larger fish is not specifically a predator. Most fish will take a little extra protein when it comes their way.
If the smaller fish is 1/2 the size of the larger and the larger is a known predator, the predator can highly likely eat the smaller fish. Most predators can open their mouths quite wide, and are very good at hunting their prey, especially if it is confined to a tank.

2) Some fish are very territorial and will harass all other fish, of the same or different species. This is what your Flying Fox is doing. Research the fish you want to keep, and pay strict attention to the optimum set up (rocks, plants, driftwood, open space) and minimum tank size for the adult fish. Some places will suggest a minimum tank size, then say, 'but larger as they grow'.

3) Fish activity levels vary, but they all need room to move around, and space to get away from the other fish. As a rough guide I would suggest average fish have at least 10x their body length of tank space. So 4" long fish (do not count the tail) in a 4' tank is OK as a starting concept. Highly active fish, or fish that startle easily should have more room.

4) Water volume needs to be enough to properly dilute the waste between water changes, and enough volume and water movement to bring the fish oxygen and remove CO2. You could probably keep half a dozen 4" fish in a 55 gallon tank from this point of view.

Ideas as to fish that will show off better:
Rainbow Fish. There are many species, and most are social, so you could have 2 males and 4-6 females. Most are mid tank swimmers that do not hide in caves or under driftwood. The mid sized species are roughly 3-4" long. They are highly active. As a very rough concept most Rainbows are compatible with many Loaches, but do the research to confirm. Some Rainbows really do prefer harder water than most Loaches.
Cichlids: Many are bottom dwellers, though no burrowing. Many like caves or an arch of driftwood. However, many Cichlids are not cave fish, and will spend plenty of time in clear view. Almost all are quite territorial, and you will need to research which fish are compatible with which others. Also research water chemistry. Cichlids come from many lakes and rivers throughout the world, and need to be kept in the right water chemistry. Overall, I would not try to combine Loaches and most Cichlids. Both want space on the bottom of the tank.
Gouramis: Most Gouramis are highly territorial, especially about the surface area of the tank. Some are so territorial they will try to defend the whole tank, and attack all other fish. I would look at Pearl Gouramis as less aggressive. The only problem with keeping Gouramis and Loaches is this: Most Gouramis come from slow moving water, and can sip the air to gain extra oxygen. Their bodies are somewhat flattened and they can get blown around in a tank with too much water movement. Most Loaches come from faster moving water and need the higher oxygen water. Still, there are ways to make this work.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

murry the moray
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: What to do now???

Post by murry the moray » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:17 am

Wow What a great reply, thank you.
I was also hopeing for an option that lets me keep my current 2 fish.
8)

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DainBramage1991
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Northern New England

Re: What to do now???

Post by DainBramage1991 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:23 pm

As someone who has had a bit of experience stocking a 55 gallon tank with a small number of aggressive fish (I had a whopping total of 4 fish in mine), I feel I can offer a suggestion.

Many of the mid-sized catfish species could probably be added to your tank, so long as you haven't added a large amount of salt to accommodate the eel (I've read that they prefer brackish water). Many synodontis catfish are quite beautiful, and might just fit in with your other two fish. Whether they do or not is always a guessing game, of course. There are plenty of others catfish species to choose from also, but I happen to have a particular liking for synodontids, so please forgive me for pushing that way. :D Just remember that they are quite territorial among themselves (they tend to ignore non-similar fish for the most part) and for that reason should be kept singly in the tank.

I would avoid adding any loricariids (plecos), as your flying fox is probably already eating much of the available algae.

I don't know a lot about freshwater morays, so I don't know how territorial they are. If he's very territorial, you might consider something for the middle or top of the tank that's large enough that it won't catch his interest as a food item.

No matter what, I wouldn't expect to be able to populate this tank like you can a community tank. Any time you house aggressive or territorial fish, you end up using a lot more space for a lot fewer fish.

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: What to do now???

Post by Diana » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:36 pm

What is the actual species of your eel?
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

murry the moray
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:58 pm

Re: What to do now???

Post by murry the moray » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:42 pm

My Moray is Gymnothorax tile.

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: What to do now???

Post by Diana » Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:06 pm

http://www.fishbase.org/summary/Gymnothorax-tile.html

A quick read through other sites suggests this fish is best kept in a brackish water tank, but is not particularly predatory, preferring smaller foods like shrimp and krill.
They can grow to 2' long.
I would suggest a tank not less than 6' long for this size of a fish.

Tank mates: I would think first about the fish that are native to the same and similar areas:
Orange Chromides get big enough, I would hope.
Scats, Monos and Dats get too big.
Archer fish would be interesting to add, if you can handle it. They are best displayed in a tank with an enclosed space above. They shoot water at insect prey, for example live crickets that are walking on branches over the tank.
Mudskippers are another brackish water fish that need a special set up. I would not try to do this with the eel, though I suppose it could work.
Celebes Rainbow, Indian Glass fish and Bumble Bee Gobies are all too small, IMO even for a relatively non predatory fish this size.
Other fish that thrive in a brackish tank are Mollies. They can be a bit pushy toward each other, so watch them. A beautiful Sailfin would look really impressive in the upper area of the tank.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

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