Hi there, I got into the fish hobby 2 yrs ago when a good friend of mine passed away. He had a ten gl tank that i went and took from his house when he passed. When i got the tank home i filled it and discovered it had a leak. So i went to my lfs to buy a new tank so i could house the pleco and 2 firemouths that i rescued from my friends house. While buying the new tank i saw a beautiful orange and black fish that i was completely enamored with. I bought this fish and took him home to start the set up of my new 10gl tank. Little did i know that i bought a clown loach and i needed a 120gl tank. The place where i was living was not condusive to have a large tank. I continued to nurture my fish and obviously got more. Pretty soon i realized that i was dealing with an overstocking issue. So i bought a 20gl tank and split the fish up. This had me believe i was ready for more loaches. I started going around to every lfs looking for oddball loaches and started buying every loach i could find. Fast forward a year. I was delivering a hottub close to my house and saw that my customer had a beautiful 120gl tank. I had since moved into a larger house and started to set up a room that i would use for tanks. About 1 week after delivering said hot tub i recieved a call from the customer telling me her house burnt down and the onlything to survive was the fish tank. She offered me the fish tank free of charge and i of course jumped at the oppurtunity. After cleaning the tank for what seemed like weeks i set up a river tank with sand substrate following martins guidlines. I started collecting more loaches especially large clowns!! I currently have a total of 10 clowns the smallest being about 4 inches largest(named hank) being 7inches. I have been following all guidelines recomended in the species index and have been dilligent about water changes and care. This past wednesday my boss purchased me a gara panda fish from a lfs that practices great quarentining rituals. Well in hindsight i should have followed suite and quarentined him myself but i was so excited that i acclimated him and put him into his new home. Sunday night i arrive home from work and see 12 dead loaches all completely covered with what i can best describe as freezer burn. i take all the dead fish out and put them in a tupperware and froze them. All the dead fish had a completly white film over them that covered all of there markings. i search my tank for the gara panda to find him dead underneath a peice of wood. The only difference with him was that he had a huge hole bored directly thru the middle of his belly. This lead me to believe that he was an active host of some parasite or another. I wnet to bed in a complete panic because on a sunday night there was nobody i could contact to ask for advice. Prior to bed i did a 50% water chang and found 4 more dead loaches. so at this point i was completly beside myself to the point my fiance made me sleep on the couch because she said i worry more about the fish than her(sometimes true). Surprisingly of all the dead loaches none where clowns they were all of the smaller variety ie: sids, emporor, dario, red tailed sand, and kubota. The following day i take my frozen dead fish to the store where i got the gara panda and have them disect it. I have not recieved the results yet but in the mean time they gave me a probuct called paragone used mainly for discus. They told me discus and loaches are very similar in treating based upon how fragile they are. I am returning to the lfs tommorow with a water sample to recieve the results of the disection. i am eagerly anticipating the results and the return of a normal tank. BTW the medication they gave me seems to be working extremly well and the remaining sick loaches have improved a bit. I wanted to give u guys a little bit of background because i highly respect everyones expertise here. Even tho i just registered today i have been reading the forums religiosly for over a year now. Sorry if this was long winded i wanted to give as much info as i could any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. my water parameters at the onset of this issue are as follows.
nitrates:20
nitrites:0
ph:6.7
kh:0
gh:approx 60
temp:84F
thank you for taking the time to read have a wonderful day and hopefully when my fiance is no longer mad at me she will teach me how to use the digital camera so i can show you all my pets
Introducing myself and asking a question
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
Introducing myself and asking a question
We need some positive vibes for these rainy days, let the sunshine in brighten up the day
-
palaeodave
- Posts: 1370
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:25 am
- Location: London/York
-
Emma Turner
- Posts: 8901
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
- Location: Peterborough, UK
- Contact:
hi emma
yes they had had the order for about a month and when i was shopping around they had put a gara in everyone of there tanks
the one real good thing about dealing with this store is that the owner is one of my swimming pool customers and he said he is willing to help me recoup my loss once the problem is remedied
is my assumption that the gara was the host correct. this is all very foriegn to me in that in my time in the hobby the worst i have had to deal with is ich and that only happened once. i came to my conclusion based upon research here amongst oother places
my biggest fear now is that i am not treating thee problem correctly or have miss diagnosed
any input is wonderful
yes they had had the order for about a month and when i was shopping around they had put a gara in everyone of there tanks
the one real good thing about dealing with this store is that the owner is one of my swimming pool customers and he said he is willing to help me recoup my loss once the problem is remedied
is my assumption that the gara was the host correct. this is all very foriegn to me in that in my time in the hobby the worst i have had to deal with is ich and that only happened once. i came to my conclusion based upon research here amongst oother places
my biggest fear now is that i am not treating thee problem correctly or have miss diagnosed
any input is wonderful
We need some positive vibes for these rainy days, let the sunshine in brighten up the day
Hi chooch, glad you decided to speak up. 
It certainly does sound like the garra was the trigger. Can you think of anything else that may have set off something like this? did you find anything odd in the tank along with the fish?
Paraguard is a good first step. the grey covering--was it fuzzy at all? Or did it look more like a heavy slime coat? Or a bacterial slime? Was there any odor (other than the fishy smell)?
Do let us know the outcome of the tests your lfs is doing.
It certainly does sound like the garra was the trigger. Can you think of anything else that may have set off something like this? did you find anything odd in the tank along with the fish?
Paraguard is a good first step. the grey covering--was it fuzzy at all? Or did it look more like a heavy slime coat? Or a bacterial slime? Was there any odor (other than the fishy smell)?
Do let us know the outcome of the tests your lfs is doing.
books. gotta love em!
http://www.Apaperbackexchange.com
http://www.Apaperbackexchange.com
-
mickthefish
- Posts: 3281
- Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:20 pm
- Location: manchester, england
mick
i felt the same way abot the hole punch but found it odd that none of the other fish had any holes thats what made me think the parasite came from him
shari
no smells other than the fisshy smell, but now that u mention it i do beleive there was excess slime coat secreted because on some of the living fish chunks of my sand substrate were stuck to the fish
as for the grey coating i was like a film over the entire fish body and when i used the net to take the dead guys out the film stuck to the inside of the net
thanks for all the responses
i felt the same way abot the hole punch but found it odd that none of the other fish had any holes thats what made me think the parasite came from him
shari
no smells other than the fisshy smell, but now that u mention it i do beleive there was excess slime coat secreted because on some of the living fish chunks of my sand substrate were stuck to the fish
as for the grey coating i was like a film over the entire fish body and when i used the net to take the dead guys out the film stuck to the inside of the net
thanks for all the responses
We need some positive vibes for these rainy days, let the sunshine in brighten up the day
-
mickthefish
- Posts: 3281
- Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:20 pm
- Location: manchester, england
hi chooch,
a friend of mine had a cory that had a louse that burrow out of the body cavity, but the louse died as soon as it was in contact with the water, i still have my doubts as to what killed the other fish you had.
i did put 2 pics up of a disease that attacked my rostrata, they had that gey slime look about them, ive just got to find the thread now so you can compare that look with the one on your fish.
mick
just found the thread it's on page 4, the thread is called mysterious illness, help needed.
sorry i cant bring it up but i'm not good enough on the pc yet.
a friend of mine had a cory that had a louse that burrow out of the body cavity, but the louse died as soon as it was in contact with the water, i still have my doubts as to what killed the other fish you had.
i did put 2 pics up of a disease that attacked my rostrata, they had that gey slime look about them, ive just got to find the thread now so you can compare that look with the one on your fish.
mick
just found the thread it's on page 4, the thread is called mysterious illness, help needed.
sorry i cant bring it up but i'm not good enough on the pc yet.
Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you have a really nice loach tank.
The description of the dead clowns sounds nothing out of the ordinary. When clowns die and have been dead for a few hours the mucus turns into a white film around the body.
Don't kick yourself yet. Sometimes even quarantining isn't enough. Although you have to be even more proactive and treat all new fish for parasites while in quarantine, even if they show no signs of illness. In your case, I don't think any unseen parasite can wipe out that many fish so quickly after just 4 days. Usually, parasites need plenty of time to multiply, like a week or 2. I could be wrong though.
I think Mick is correct about how the hole got on the fish's belly. A group of clowns can do that kind of damage in a matter of seconds. They may even do something like this just to put a sick fish out of it's misery, then leave it alone after it's dead. It sounds like the new fish was ill for unknown reasons, and the clowns may have put it down.
How did you acclimate the new fish in to your main tank when you got it?
If the dead fish was in the tank for a few hours that could cause an ammonia spike and deplete oxygen levels in the tank. One dead fish can cause a snowball effect and the toxic ammonia that comes froms it can kill others. Also, dead fish can easily get caught in filter intakes, rendering the filter useless. Any nitrifying bacteria in the tank, will consume the ammonia as quicly as possible, and use up any available oxygen. Ammonia Spike + Lower Oxygen is always bad news.
If the filter intake was clogged for several hours, then once it unclogged, the filter would release an ammonia bomb in the tank. After a few hours the ammonia spike may clear up on it's own, with the help of algae and nitrifying bacteria. That's why reduncy with filters is so important.
How many filters do you have?
Did you check the ammonia level when you discovered the dead fish?
The tank still needs to treated for parasites though even if it was an ammonia problem because weakened fish make perfect hosts and parasites are opportunist.
The description of the dead clowns sounds nothing out of the ordinary. When clowns die and have been dead for a few hours the mucus turns into a white film around the body.
Don't kick yourself yet. Sometimes even quarantining isn't enough. Although you have to be even more proactive and treat all new fish for parasites while in quarantine, even if they show no signs of illness. In your case, I don't think any unseen parasite can wipe out that many fish so quickly after just 4 days. Usually, parasites need plenty of time to multiply, like a week or 2. I could be wrong though.
I think Mick is correct about how the hole got on the fish's belly. A group of clowns can do that kind of damage in a matter of seconds. They may even do something like this just to put a sick fish out of it's misery, then leave it alone after it's dead. It sounds like the new fish was ill for unknown reasons, and the clowns may have put it down.
How did you acclimate the new fish in to your main tank when you got it?
If the dead fish was in the tank for a few hours that could cause an ammonia spike and deplete oxygen levels in the tank. One dead fish can cause a snowball effect and the toxic ammonia that comes froms it can kill others. Also, dead fish can easily get caught in filter intakes, rendering the filter useless. Any nitrifying bacteria in the tank, will consume the ammonia as quicly as possible, and use up any available oxygen. Ammonia Spike + Lower Oxygen is always bad news.
If the filter intake was clogged for several hours, then once it unclogged, the filter would release an ammonia bomb in the tank. After a few hours the ammonia spike may clear up on it's own, with the help of algae and nitrifying bacteria. That's why reduncy with filters is so important.
How many filters do you have?
Did you check the ammonia level when you discovered the dead fish?
The tank still needs to treated for parasites though even if it was an ammonia problem because weakened fish make perfect hosts and parasites are opportunist.
Another thought along the lines of the damage to the garra being from post-mortem predation is that the fish who ate from the deceased were infected with whatever took out your garra...
books. gotta love em!
http://www.Apaperbackexchange.com
http://www.Apaperbackexchange.com
-
helen nightingale
- Posts: 4717
- Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:23 am
- Location: London, UK
sorry to hear of your problem. i can understand why you were in a state, and i hope your fiance calms down with you soon. it sounds like you could do with a hug not being told off.
i hope the remaining fish all go on to do well
i hope the remaining fish all go on to do well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT ... 1&index=11 spam spam spam
well i took a water sample o the trusted lfs and we discovered sky high phos-phates to my surprise. i am in the middle of a 50% change and i have a phos-phate treatment that i will do when i finish change. im going to continue the paragone treatment for the parasite but the phos-phate issue makes sense so im going to activly treat in that direction. my fiance has calm some since seeing me careing for this issue so much. i think its finally setting in with her that this is not just a hobby for me. 
as for filter questions i have 2 power head on a river manifold with sponges blocking out intake also have added a duel wheel emporeror hanging filter for the nitrifing bacteria. my biggest concern at the moment is the non loach fish are slowly falling i came home today to find the first fish i ever bought dead a 2 + yr old angel as well as my 2 remaining bengal loaches.
time will tell
as for filter questions i have 2 power head on a river manifold with sponges blocking out intake also have added a duel wheel emporeror hanging filter for the nitrifing bacteria. my biggest concern at the moment is the non loach fish are slowly falling i came home today to find the first fish i ever bought dead a 2 + yr old angel as well as my 2 remaining bengal loaches.
time will tell
We need some positive vibes for these rainy days, let the sunshine in brighten up the day
-
helen nightingale
- Posts: 4717
- Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:23 am
- Location: London, UK
thats sad news about your other fish. the first fish you buy, youtend to have a soft spot for, dont you?
have you checked your tap water for phosphates? that could be a source. do you get foods that are low phosphate where you are? thaty might help till you have the problem sorted. all the best for getting it all fixed before you have any more losses.
i am glad your fiance is calming down too. i have noticed my other half, who pretends to have no interest, gradually start to notice if a fish has gone missing, if i dont tell him if one dies, and sometimes i catch him watching them. i hope your fiance gets atttached too
have you checked your tap water for phosphates? that could be a source. do you get foods that are low phosphate where you are? thaty might help till you have the problem sorted. all the best for getting it all fixed before you have any more losses.
i am glad your fiance is calming down too. i have noticed my other half, who pretends to have no interest, gradually start to notice if a fish has gone missing, if i dont tell him if one dies, and sometimes i catch him watching them. i hope your fiance gets atttached too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT ... 1&index=11 spam spam spam
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 187 guests