Follow-up question for clown in qt

[Diana]

It seems like the fish is healthy.
If it had caught something in the store (Entirely likely) I would no know what to treat it with, because I have no idea what it might have caught. If the fish never shows symptoms of anything then don't treat it.
Continue taking good care of him in the Q-tank, and watching.

You might try flavoring the food with garlic. Some fish seem to like the flavor, even though they have never tasted it, as far as I know.

[shari2]

My thinking on prophylactic treatments is that it is always appropriate to treat wild caught fish for internal parasites since they are endemic.

If you purchase fish from a store using a central system, and you see even one fish that appears to have ich (not that we'd want to buy fish from such systems, but you know it happens) better be ready to treat for it when you get the fish home, and do it in a qtank. I know your fish was in an lfs which likely had a central system. What was the quality of the tanks/fish in the store? Did you see any signs of ich in any of the tanks?

As for the other meds on your list, I'd use them when symptoms seemed to indicate the need, not prophylactically.

[LK]

No, I didn't see any ich in any other tanks on recent trips to this store. However, I have in the past. Yet, my new loach was housed in a tank on a back wall, away from the other sale tanks which are in these free-standing islands. I'm tempted to think that the islands have a separate system from the tanks on the back wall. Plus, all the other tanks on that wall either house plants, or other fish brought in by their owners. Of course, it still doesn't mean that none of those donated fish weren't carrying something my loach picked up. Considering how old this loach is, and that he's been housed in someone's home for a while, would you still be as concerned with parasites? I guess, as opposed to him being young and fresh from the wild? I don't mind treating him with General Cure, I guess I just always worry about meds doing more harm than good. But if you don't think the General Cure will hurt him, I'll use it.

[shari2]

Personally, I wouldn't treat unless you see a need for it. There are other schools of thought on this, and my opinion is not the only one out there, nor can I say it's the best.

Ultimately, it's up to you to factor in your observations, evaluate input and come up with what you think is the best course of action.

In other words, I won't tell you what to do, only what I would do.

According to The Turquise Aquarium API's General Cure contains the following:
copper sulphate
trichlorfon
metronidazole

I don't know in what concentrations, but before you use it I'd recommend googling around a bit to see what effects the ingredients have on fish and what they are designed to do.

Personally, I try not to use meds unless I see a need, with the exception of the qtank period for known wild caught or sick fish.

[LK]

Hi, yes, I was actually just googling my med now. Apparently there is an old General Cure, which is the one containing copper. I have the new formula, which is 250 mg of metronidazole and 75 mg of praziquantel. I'm glad I have it on hand, should there be any signs of parasites, but for now I'm going to hold off on all meds and just wait and watch. The clown shows no physical symptoms of anything, is swimming normally, and is just starting to eat and poop. It's also just starting to calm down and be somewhat inquisitive when I approach the tank. I'm just going to keep the water clean and see how things unfold. Thanks again so much to everyone who's been offering me advice.

[chefkeith]

I like sure things. I don't believe in the stomping out the fire approach. I want to prevent the fire from happening in the 1st place. Quarantining can smolder a disease because it lessens the stress on the fish. I won’t suggest stressing the fish enough so that it will have an outbreak either. I'm not going to suggest waiting for an infected fish to show multiple symptoms of a very common parasitic disease. I wouldn’t have waited this long that’s for sure. It was even mentioned that the suspected fish wasn’t eating in this thread-
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=11818

If a fish shows more symptoms, like clamped fins, then the fish may already be in a very weakened state. If the fish survives much longer in this not eating stage, the parasites may then invade more parts of the body. By the time you can properly diagnose a symptom, like an ich spot, the advanced stages may be near, and it might already be too late. There is no guaranteed treatment for fish that have full blown parasitic infestations.

The prophylactic method of prevention is the safest method of treating ich and other parasites because the treatment won’t further weaken the fish.
(Most ich meds will kill a bundle of other parasites too. )

It’s my assumption that if a LFS sells fish medications then chances are they are selling infected fish. I've yet to find an LFS that doesn't sell infected fish. All responsibility is up to the purchaser because the LFS makes no guarantees to the purchaser.

If you truly don’t believe in the prophylactic approach, then think about this-

Most people are vaccinated to prevent diseases that they’ve never had. Nearly every person that has ever gone to school was required to show proof of this vaccination. If you were to ever to get a pet kitten or puppy, you’d probably have it vaccinated also. Even for things without a heartbeat, you should be proactive. Most people protect their computers from known viruses, by installing virus protection software and firewalls. Don’t take it for granted that these pets are only fish. You should try your best to protect them from the most common and devastating parasites.

Here's another decent article about quarantining and ich.
http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/quarantine.html

[LK]

Thanks again. I appreciate the differing opinions on prophylactic treatments, because it gives me lots of information to help me make up my mind. It's true the fish didn't eat for about 60 hours after I brought it home, but for the past 2 days it has eaten normally. It is active in the late evening and early morning and swims normally with no clamped fins. That's why I had decided to avoid medicating it, since, after the stress of its multiple moves, its behavior and eating patterns seemed to be stabilizing and I didn't want to do anything further to alter its living conditions. However, the Kordon's article posted by chefkeith was interesting in that it recommended the use of its various organic products, such as Prevent Ich, which I do own. I have heard differing opinions on the effectiveness of these products, but I'd feel more comfortable using something gentler in the absence of any symptoms. But I've still got to think about it, because something like Prevent Ich may just be strong enough to keep the ich (if it's even present) in lowered numbers, hidden in the fish's gills for several life cycles, so that I never know it's there. That makes me think I should either treat with full-blown ich meds or not treat at all and wait for symptoms. In any case, this thread is helping me make an informed decision. In a few days, I may well use the General Cure, which treats for flukes, worms, lice, and velvet. It doesn't mention ich, but by the time the treatment period is over, enough time will have passed that maybe I'll be better able to judge whether an ich med is needed.