Dojo Loach Help

[starsplitter7]

I have two Golden Dojos and several regular Dojos.

My pink Golden Dojo has always worried me. Her skin always looks patchy. Tonight she looked worse than normal. I moved her and her golden Dojo companion to their future larger tank. I acclimized over an hour. Both tanks freshly cleaned and conditioned. Temp is pretty close.

Pinky looks like she is shedding her skin, and I am very worried about her. She is listless.

Goldie looks thrilled with her new tank. Swimming all over, eating well, poking into every nook and cranny.

I plan to move the other Dojos soon. I don't want to overwhelm the bioload.

The new tank has decent water flow, a water fall and two bubblers.

I have been doing a huge cleaning effort on all my tanks, and they have all had two 30-50% water changes and vacuuming in the last week. Always with water conditioner. All tanks have hidey places and plants.

My question is should I keep Goldie and Pinkie in their new tank or put them back into their old tank? I don't want to shock them. I don't know if I made a mistake moving Pinkie (I moved her tonight because I thought the new tank would be a cleaner, healthier environment). Moving them is part of my new plan for all my fish. Many will be moved over the next month.

Tanja.

[helen nightingale]

hey, Tanja, sorry to hear about your problem. i dont know much about dojos, so i cant offer much help. i hope pinky is better soon. it sounds cute.

i think i would leave them in the new tank, so as not to stress them out again. i am sure you already have, but i'd check the tanks water parameters are still similar.

are they the first fish in the new tank, or have they got new tankmates?

one of the experts will hopefully be able to help you soon

[shari2]

Pinky sounds stressed and that something either during the move or in the new tank has caused an excess of slime output. Did you check the water similarities between the tanks? (i'm sure you did...)

It may be that she's more sensitive due to her coloring? I'd give her time, observe and see if she calms down.

I'd be careful with heavy duty cleaning. I know that around here, if I go too crazy it always causes problems. Some tanks are better off left to themselves for both the sake of the fish and plants.

[starsplitter7]

Pinky sounds stressed and that something either during the move or in the new tank has caused an excess of slime output. Did you check the water similarities between the tanks? (i'm sure you did...)

It may be that she's more sensitive due to her coloring? I'd give her time, observe and see if she calms down.

I'd be careful with heavy duty cleaning. I know that around here, if I go too crazy it always causes problems. Some tanks are better off left to themselves for both the sake of the fish and plants.

Goldie looks great. Swimming all over the tank. Pinkie I am amazed is still alive. Tonight she has terrible, angry red areas in the area that was shedding. I moved her into a private suit in the tank, and left the lights of on her side of the tank. I am thinking of moving her to my quarantine tank which has all my baby mollies and keeping her sectioned off by herself so the mollies don't bother her. I don't know what to do. I will double check the water perameters. I do keep a regular cleaning schedule, because my tanks are a bit overstocked. The tank I moved her into has been established since September and has docile mates likes Cories. She wanted to float at the top holding onto the heater so I made her a bed of plants in a large breeder and put it slightly in the flow from the filter. So she gets lots of oxygen and the water is a bit cooler. I do worry that her pink coloration has led her to be predisposed too ill health. I have thought she was dead many times to have her swim away. Goldie and all the other Dojos are a romping happy healthy crew. I figured the new tank must be great for Goldie to have adapted so quickly. I'll move the other Dojos soon.

[starsplitter7]

Augh! Looks like I crashed my tank. I have 1 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite and 0 Nitrate. No wonder my Dojo is in such bad shape. Surprised all my fish aren't sick! I added Ammo Lock (which dropped my ammonia to .5) and more water conditioner -- has aloe to sooth the skin. I left her at the top of the tank in her plant pillow and with fresh water splashing into her container. I hope that is soothing for her. I feel just terrible. I'll remove more water tomorrow without cleaning. I will also keep a very close watch to see if my tank really is crashed. Luckily most of my fish are pretty hearty (No excuse for subprime conditions). Thanks so much for your help and concern. Tanja.

[Keith Wolcott]

I'm glad that you found the problem. You will be able to get it under control now that you know what is going on.

[grizzlyone]

That's why all my tanks get a maint dose of Prime once a week.

Never have to worry about it.


Kevin

[shari2]

Sorry to hear about the crash, Tanja.

Hopefully you can get a handle on it and won't have any major repercussions. How is Pinky doing? It may be that the areas where the slime sloughed off are 'burnt' from the ammonia, or she may need antibiotics if when the slime coat regenerates the redness doesn't go away. Loss of slime coat leaves fish open to all the many pathogens in the water.

[starsplitter7]

That's why all my tanks get a maint dose of Prime once a week. Never have to worry about it. Kevin

Thanks Kevin, I figured Prime and API Stresscoat were the same type of product. I read the lables. Is there a specific Prime you use to help? I have API Ammo Lock which I think is the same as AmQuell. I also have AmQuell. I don't mind switching to Prime, if it is better.

Thanks Keith, I appeciate the support.

Tanja

[starsplitter7]

Sorry to hear about the crash, Tanja.

Hopefully you can get a handle on it and won't have any major repercussions. How is Pinky doing? It may be that the areas where the slime sloughed off are 'burnt' from the ammonia, or she may need antibiotics if when the slime coat regenerates the redness doesn't go away. Loss of slime coat leaves fish open to all the many pathogens in the water.

Hi Shari,

Thanks for checking on me and Pinkie. Much to my great amazement, Pinkie is still with me. I did not expect her to make it through the night. The redness is reducing. Her breathing isn't as labored. I still have her in the breeder under the filter flow getting a very gentle water fall. She is covered in soft plants to make her feel more secure. She usually lays in plants in the tank.

I will be doing water changes, no cleaning today. I am off to the store to pick up some more Ammo Lock and probaby Prime, so I can learn the difference. I won't mix the products, but I have several tanks, so I can try different things in different tanks. I will continue to watch Pinkie.

I am afraid to add anything to my tank, because it seems everytime I do treatments, I lose my fish. The last times I have used Melafix, at very low dosages, I have lost my fish.

It says on the "StressCoat" bottle that it helps with the slimecoat. I am hoping this is true. I am sure Pinkie got burned, because she looked burned. I will try to pick up a general antibiotic.

Goldie is still happy as a fish can be. I think she has healthier skin and didn't have the same reaction. I moved her with Pinkie, so Pinkie would have a friend. I didn't want to add to her stress by putting her into exile away from all her Dojo friends, since they all pile up together.

I will be doing water changes this afternoon. Thanks so much. Tanja

[grizzlyone]

I swear by Prime.

Its a different animal that most of the other products. Its sort of an all in one type of conditioner and is safer for plants and mostly it doesn't remove the compounds, just detoxifies them and still leaves them available for the biofilter to process them.

As the risk of being thought a shill, here's the description from the Seachem website:

Prime™ is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime™ removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime™ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime™ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime™ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.Prime™ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime™ is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime™ will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.


Since using it I've never had a death directly attributable to any of the compounds that it removes. I only have to worry about PH/GH/KH on the chemistry side. A 500ml bottle will treat about 5000 gallons and they go for about $15. The nice thing is that I don't have to worry about the biofilter going haywire if I clean too much or replace too much water.

A unintended, but great result is that it leaves the nitrates usable by plants as well and it seems to enhance their growth



Cheers,

Kevin

[starsplitter7]

Thanks Kevin,

I picked up some Prime today based on your recommendation. It seems to be concentrated, and I noticed that it also helps with slime coat, which I believe would help Pinky right now.

It appears if you use Prime, you still have the compounds your good bacteria want to eat. I also have plants, so this does sound like a better choice. I believe I may replace the Stress Coat, AmmoLock and Amquell with Prime.

I know with Amquell, there can be a drop in oxygen in the tank. Do you know if Prime is associated with a drop in oxygen?

Thank you, Tanja.

[starsplitter7]

Pinky is still with me. Hanging in there. Looks much better. Still doesn't look great.

I picked up Prime, and I picked up API T.C Tetracycline. It is a bit overwhelming looking at all the medicines available.

I picked the Tetracycline, because it claims to treat "Body Slime and Eye Cloud", "Open Red Sores", "Gill Disease", "Tail and Fin Rot" and "Hemorrhagic Septicemia". Pinky's eyes appear cloudy and where her slime coat peeled she was red -- she is mostly back to her pink color. Each packet of this drug contains 500 mg "Tetracycline Hydrochloride". Each packet treats 10 gallons, and four treatments are required.

My plan is: Use an empty 10-gallon tank and fill with warm water to match her current tank and treat with prime. I have a mature filter on another tank, and I will put that filter in the empty tank. I will remove the carbon. I will add the Tetracycline. Then I plan to move Pinky and her pillow of plants to this tank. This tank will not have a heater or a lid, and Pinky is used to temps about 74 degrees. I figure as long as the temp drops slowly, it shouldn’t bother her. I live in Florida but we will have a drop in temp the next few days, and we don’t use heat. The room can drop to 60 degrees, but I figure for Pinkie it should be okay. I know Dojos like cooler temps.

Could someone let me know if this sounds like a good plan? Is the Tetracycline okay? Should I treat at half strength? Will the temps in the treatment tank be okay? I will need to treat her about a week. I can put a screen on her tank and keep her tank next to a heated tank. My shrimp tank isn’t heated, and the tank stays about 70 degrees.

Thanks, Tanja.

[Diana]

The temperature might be an issue. A healthy Dojo would have no problem with it. You want Pinky's metabolism to remain running pretty high so that she can fight any possible bacteria or fungus that might try to move in while she is stressed. The low temp will slow her metabolism so she cannot fight the bacteria so well.

If she is not showing any symptoms, I would not treat her with antibiotics. Sounds like the slime coat enhancing chemicals are doing their job.

Never use half a dose of antibiotics. This is what leads to resistant bacteria. When you have diagnosed a bacterial issue use the proper dose for the proper duration.

Keep up the water changes to reduce the ammonia, and as the tank re-cycles watch out for nitrites, too. 1 teaspoon of salt per 20 gallons is the dose of salt (sodium chloride) that will protect the fish from Brown Blood Disease. This is a small amount of salt, well tolerated by sensitive fish and plants.

[grizzlyone]

Thanks Kevin,

I picked up some Prime today based on your recommendation. It seems to be concentrated, and I noticed that it also helps with slime coat, which I believe would help Pinky right now.

It appears if you use Prime, you still have the compounds your good bacteria want to eat. I also have plants, so this does sound like a better choice. I believe I may replace the Stress Coat, AmmoLock and Amquell with Prime.

I know with Amquell, there can be a drop in oxygen in the tank. Do you know if Prime is associated with a drop in oxygen?

Thank you, Tanja.

I've replaced all my conditioners/chems with Prime. Part of it is the simplicity, the other parts is that its lot less expense and I can buy more tanks and fish with the money I'd spend and its a no-brainer, as every Sunday, the tanks get water change/addition and a small maintenance dose of Prime.

I'm not sure about the oxygen part, but I'd be on the safe side and make sure that the tank is plenty oxygenated. Something to break the surface tension is going to be most effective. If you have a HOB filter, lower the water level...

You might want to look on the board, some people also add some (just a bit, not too much) aquarium salt to help with gill functions too. Its a matter of preference and what works best for you. At this point try not to add too much more change to prevent even more stress.

Good luck...and I'll think good thoughts...

Kevin