CL's are sick

[chelms166]

just noticed the slime coat on my loaches seems to be coming off! they are less active and I'm assuming something is horribly wrong. i have 6 clowns and they all seem to be showing signs. one of them just swims up to one of the back corners at the top and stays there. i just cleaned out my filters a couple days ago and may have gotten some cleaning products in the water. i will do water changes but is there some kind of medicine i can get to help them get past this? I've had them for about three years now and they are ranging in size from 3-6 inches. i really dont want to lose any of them. i love my loaches. please help me. thanks folks.

[chelms166]

someone please help me. anything at all will help.

[Emma Turner]

Hi chelms166,

I'd recommend a large water change (make sure the temp of the new water matches that of the main tank as closely as possible) and add a Polyfilter into the filtration system to absorb any suspected nasties that may have made their way into the water. http://www.underworldproducts.co.uk/aqu ... filter.htm You'll need to go to a decent aquatics store to find these and they are pricey (but they can be life savers). Increasing aeration within the tank may also help the loaches to feel more comfortable.

Emma

[chelms166]

thanks emma. water change is scheduled in a few minutes, then i'll have to run out around town and try to find this polyfilter. hopefully one of the lfs' will have a clue. i just hate to see the clowns like this after they've been so healthy. and just in the past few weeks they seem to have been incredibly more active. not shying away when i approach the tank to feed them and being up and ready for breakfast in the morning. i thought all was well, and then this happens. my wife was the one that actually said something to me. i didn't even notice til she said something was wrong. oh and i also have four golden guaramis and four green catfish in with the loaches and they all seem fine. well, i'll update later on what the outcome is. pray for my wonderful children please. thanks for the help again.

[chelms166]

well i was unable to find any polyfilters so i just opted for a fluval 4 underwater filter with charcoal pad. i also did a 20% water change and added about 5 teaspoons of amquel+. i'm getting the added aeration and water movement fromt the underwater filter and will do a water change and treatment later on tonight. i hope this all works. i was planning on getting a larger tank so my babies could have more room to run around in, but that's on hold for now pending the funds. here's a little of what i'm talking about here with the clowns appearance...
[/img]

[chelms166]

well sad to say things aren't looking good for my clowns. it seems two of them are showing severe signs of ammonia poisoning. strange since i know i don't over feed and i vacuum the gravel and do weekly water changes. the one in the pic i posted seems to have some weird tumor looking thingy on the other side of it. i'll have to take another pic to show you guys what i mean. but he/she seems to be doing fine at the moment. not 100%, but he's hanging in there. one of the others is jus about ready to kick the bucket. he has no motivation to live. just lays next to the new underwater filter upside down. he's still breathing though so i havent given up yet. pretty sure he won't make it. i have two other tanks but neither are up and running so transferring them is out of the question for right now. so far i've dumped about 8ounces of amquel+ in there to keep the nitrate, nitrite and ammonia under control. about 20% water changes prior to adding the amquel, but haven't seen any improvements yet. i'll update tomorrow. hopefully, it will be good news. pray for them.

[chelms166]

i forgot to add that the golden guaramis and the single red eyed tetra seem to be doing just fine. must be the added protection from the scales.

[Diana]

What are the water test results?

Activated carbon can remove a lot of things from the water. Perhaps swap out the stuff you just added after 24-48 hours. It can get full, fast.
Have you tried adding Purigen to the filter? It will remove a somewhat different range of things than activated carbon.
Zeolite (Am-rid, and other names. White chips) will remove ammonia.

Was the new water (when you did the water change that seemed to trigger this) the same pH, GH, KH as the tank water?

Many fish will produce extra slime coat when there is an irritant. CL seem to do it more copiously than many other fish.

What sort of cleaning products?

Is the bump or growth on the one fish new?
Any other signs of anything? Red or grey patches? White spots?

[chelms166]

well, diana, i havne't actually tested the water. i'm assuming the water parameters were all within there respective tolerance levels since i've had no ill effects in this tank in three years. not saying something couldn't have spiked. the water i added was straight from the tap, which seems to have been working fine. i follow the tap water with some kind of conditioner as i add it. the one fish that is on his last leg has the red patches that i was told is associated with toxic levels of ammonia. but i haven't changed the amount i feed and i change the water weekly. approx 20 % each time. the only thing i can think went wrong was i got a small amount of cleaning liquid, which may have contained bleach, in the water. it definately was a small enough amount that i didn't notice it go into the tank. it occured when i was wiping away this brown, flaky grime off the ledges.


all those white lines are air bubbles that got blurred in case you were wondering. i know they look like those little worm things.

here is a beautiful before pic taken quite some time ago.

[lotsoffish]

Here is exactly what I think you should do. Take a water sample from your tank to the best fish shop in town and have them test it for ammonia, nitrite and PH. If everything checks out fine I would do a 50% water change and dose the whole tank with oxytetracycline. Turn off you lights, stop feeding and let the whole tank just sit for about 5 days. After 5 days do a 50% water change and see how things look.

I know I don't post here often but I am experienced in problem solving and as long as you have not added any new fish in quite a while I would assume these clown loaches were burned by something. If you have zero ammonia in your tank it's possible they were burned by chlorine because you simply forgot or didn't add enough dechlorinator when you performed the last water change before they went down. Another possibility is you did get some type of detergent/ cleaner in this tank. Regardless of what burned them it's sounds like they did get burned and burns lead to irritation and infection. The oxytetracycline may help with infection. By stopping feeding you will also lessen the likely hood of an ammonia spike from the antibiotic. Give this a try and let us know how things progress after the five days.

[shari2]

And get some Purigen.
What size is the tank?

[grizzlyone]

I'd suggest Prime instead of Purigen. Purigen is going to completely remove the Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, etc. and will just postpone the problem and will not let the biofilter rebuild itself without another spike at some point. The baddies actually bind to the purigen media rather than being rendered inert as with Prime.


I have Purigen Pouches and I mostly use them when I have water clarity issues or a massive problem that I don't think I can add enough Prime safely. They can also be destroyed by some slime coat products.

Again, I might sound like a shill, but I swear by Prime. Prime and Purigen are both made by the same company so its not a matter of one company over the other.

Kevin

[shari2]

The reason I suggested the Purigen was to remove any possible toxic chemical from his cleaning. Will Prime do the same?

[grizzlyone]

Going by the web site:

Purigen™ is a premium synthetic adsorbent that is unlike any other filtration product. It is not a mixture of ion exchangers or adsorbents, but a unique macro-porous synthetic polymer that removes soluble and insoluble impurities from water at a rate and capacity that exceeds all others by over 500%. Purigen™ controls ammonia, nitrites and nitrates by removing nitrogenous organic waste that would otherwise release these harmful compounds. Purigen’s™ impact on trace elements is minimal. It significantly raises redox. It polishes water to unparalleled clarity. Purigen™ darkens progressively as it exhausts, and is easily renewed by treating with bleach.


Prime™ is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime™ removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime™ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime™ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime™ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels.Prime™ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime™ is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime™ will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.


I would think it would be a chlorine or heavy metal thing, but the safest might be to add both.

Kevin

[Diana]

Good point about Purigen being incompatible with Stress Coat and similar products. You will likely get one use out of it, then it cannot be regenerated if there is also Stress Coat in the water.

One use might be all you need. At this point the greatest need is to remove any contaminants in the water. After a couple of more water changes and several days of activated carbon and Purigen, then go get some Bio Spira to rebuild the bacteria colony.