Hello! i'm a new member and i've joined specifically to find out if my clown will be ok.
i just treated my 130 gallon tank with levamisole HCL in powder form (recommended dosage from a reputable supplier) and so far so good EXCEPT my clown loaches seem to be caught up suddenly in a thick gelatinous slime! What is this? and should i worry?
HI new member with levamisole HCL vs clown loaches question
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HI new member with levamisole HCL vs clown loaches question
133 gallon planted freshwater tank
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
well he pre packaged it for me but it was basically 7.5 grams mixed with water to dissolve for my 130 gallon tank. he seems to be the go to guy for this treatment on other forums but he didn't mention anything about slime. I've msg'd him too.
Last edited by malia on Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
133 gallon planted freshwater tank
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
The standard dosage for Levamisole HCL is 2mg/L.
For further info see here:
http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/l ... chloride-1
For further info see here:
http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/l ... chloride-1
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Gary Stanton
- Posts: 1412
- Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:31 pm
- Location: Lake Tahoe, CA
why would my driftwood be covered in this same slime then? i'm not sure it's excessive slime coat like you say, but maybe the medicine gooping up? the fish have all calmed down now too, so i'm going to leave it over night. the camallanus worms have done a number on my tank and i'd probably lose the weaker fish anyways to this. i'll give you an update tomorrow!
i should add that the meds i was given were not 100% pure either... i seem to recall him telling me it was 95% levamisole HCL. if that makes a difference. I'm horrible at math myself and specifically told him i needed it to be portioned out for 133gallon tank. we repeated the numbers over a few times... maybe he wrote grams instead of mgs on the baggy?
he's helped tons of people using the same dosage and has only had positive results (with the exception of the fish that were too far gone) so i'm not ready to abandon his technique yet. i do appreciate your concern and thank you for your prompt reply! i will keep a close eye on everyone tonight.
i should add that the meds i was given were not 100% pure either... i seem to recall him telling me it was 95% levamisole HCL. if that makes a difference. I'm horrible at math myself and specifically told him i needed it to be portioned out for 133gallon tank. we repeated the numbers over a few times... maybe he wrote grams instead of mgs on the baggy?
he's helped tons of people using the same dosage and has only had positive results (with the exception of the fish that were too far gone) so i'm not ready to abandon his technique yet. i do appreciate your concern and thank you for your prompt reply! i will keep a close eye on everyone tonight.133 gallon planted freshwater tank
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
malia, I think I dealt with the same supplier you did. Did the Levamisole arrive in pre-measured packets labeled 5 grams per 100 gallons? He insisted that I use this high dosage, otherwise the worms wouldn't be killed. My poor Clown Loaches had the same reaction, and were shedding huge clumps of slime, became hyperactive, and had a loss of appetite. I also noticed significant darkening of other fish in my tank. The next day, I did about a 25% water change. I don't care how harmless this medication is supposed to be, my fish were poisoned! My Rainbowfish would eat food, then spit it out. Cucumber that used to be attacked was ignored by most of the Clowns. The fish still don't eat like they used to, and my first treatment of this medication was on November 7th, with a final, slightly lower dose, on December 1st. Even experienced suppliers can be wrong. Obviously, he doesn't keep loaches and rainbows.
Since then, I've followed Shari's guide using the same medication, but in much, much smaller amounts for new fish in my 20 gallon quarantine tank. These fish are doing very well, and I'm not having any problems.
By the way, if you're going to stick with his dosage, add an airstone. One of my loaches slept near the overflow for my wet/dry filter. They HATED this medication.
Since then, I've followed Shari's guide using the same medication, but in much, much smaller amounts for new fish in my 20 gallon quarantine tank. These fish are doing very well, and I'm not having any problems.
By the way, if you're going to stick with his dosage, add an airstone. One of my loaches slept near the overflow for my wet/dry filter. They HATED this medication.
jwyfk- you are having that creepy TDS issue also. Do you think it could of been the TDS issue in combination with the levamisole that upset your clown loaches? Or perhaps the HCL reacted to something in the water column? I guess this is why such treatments should always be done in a quarantine tank 1st, that way if there is an adverse reaction, then only one or a few fish are affected instead of the entire main tank.
I know you were saying that your TDS has ranged from around 200 to 850 ppm. How have you been dealing with this? Did you switch to RO water? Have you been doing smaller more frequent water changes?
You are absolutely right that you shouldn't trust anybody with your own fish. When I used Levamisole HCL I 1st tested it in a few small quarantine tanks, then after it passed my safety tests I dosed my main tanks with it.
Shari- maybe this is something you need to add to your article. That the levamisole should be tested in a quarantine tank 1st.
Also, fish definitely need to have steady water parameters during medicinal treatments. Kh, Gh, TDS, and pH levels need to be steady before, during, and after treatments. All the water changes that are required can make this a difficult task, especially in jwyfk's case.
I know you were saying that your TDS has ranged from around 200 to 850 ppm. How have you been dealing with this? Did you switch to RO water? Have you been doing smaller more frequent water changes?
You are absolutely right that you shouldn't trust anybody with your own fish. When I used Levamisole HCL I 1st tested it in a few small quarantine tanks, then after it passed my safety tests I dosed my main tanks with it.
Shari- maybe this is something you need to add to your article. That the levamisole should be tested in a quarantine tank 1st.
Also, fish definitely need to have steady water parameters during medicinal treatments. Kh, Gh, TDS, and pH levels need to be steady before, during, and after treatments. All the water changes that are required can make this a difficult task, especially in jwyfk's case.
Another thing I've noticed recently is that most livestock medication retailers no longer have Levamisole HCL available and it's been discontinued at most websites. I wonder if it's being pulled off the shelves for a reason? Even the manufacturer of Levasole ,Schering-Plough Animal Heath http://www.schering-plough.com/products ... ealth.aspx , doesn't list it as a product at their website anymore. So I'm wondering if levamisole HCL is even being manufactured anymore?
Fenbendazole is much easier to find these days.
Fenbendazole is much easier to find these days.
UPDATE:
Instructions were to do massive gravel clean and water change before treatment and lower lights and remove carbon. (i fed my plants about 5 days earlier with a commercial liquid fertilizer.) i had used another anti parasite medication about a week or so ago, but have done two water changes since then and added carbon to remove any reminants before using the levamisole HCL. you'll think this is horrible but i'm not sure what the substrate is... it was given to me by a friend from his established tank and told me it was great for growing plants. it may well be flourite based, as my plants have flourished with little work on my behalf. i have two fluvals of different sizes and one over the top filter that pours water into the tank (i'm sorry i don't know the specifics... that's my boyfriend's department!) we also have an airstone in the tank so i'm not concerned about the oxygen levels in the tank at all. i've never seen anyone "gasp" for air.
day1
the loaches stopped reacting to the meds after about an hour and by morning everyone seemed ok all be it a little stressed. And most fish except for the badly infected, seemed eager to eat their food in the morning.
My poor little keyhole cichlids were quite rough to start with and their stress colours were quite dark. (looked very marbled)
my rummy nosed tetras had shown signs of the camallanus worms first and while waiting to get my hands on the meds i lost 5. i have two left that were quite infected and i expect to lose them both as they look very poorly. after adding the meds the rummys have gone very pale (expected to be honest... they are so picky with their water parameters) and are acting rather skittish, but still show an interest in eating.
all of my fish are swimming close to the substrate, except for my guppies, gouramis, foxes and danios which for them is business as usual.
i should add as a side that all adult malaysian trumpet snails have been affected and are dead. the baby snails seem unaffected and come out every night. (so i will be doing a good clean of dead snails tonight!)
Day 2
two of my keyhole cichlids are looking quite perky and their vents are looking clear much to my relief. the three others are still working away at passing their respective worms... i will be putting a little ruffage in the tank tonight to hopefully get their little digestive systems working OT
i've lost one of the badly damaged rummies... she looked as if she was going to explode and as if she had a secondary bacterial infection on her side.
the clown loaches are out and about and harrassing everyone.
the only sign of the remaining worms seems to be in my last three cichlids. i'm hoping they will pass the worms quickly but they are so small as they are juveniles i'm a little worried. I will be doing the massive water change tonight and gravel clean and adding the carbon back into the filters as i don't want to expose them any longer. I know a lot of you were concerned for my fish and i appreciate it! i did double check what the lethal dose was and i was well..WELL under it, otherwise i would have immediately removed the meds. I only have my fish's well being in mind...and if i didn't feel like it was doing some good i would have stopped. (it's not good when you start to have fish nightmares!) when i do the second round of meds in about 2-3 wks i will reduce it to the recommended dosage of 2mg / L.
in regards to it being hard to find levamisole my fish lady at my lfs has a theory that it has to do with the phosphates that are in the commercially available meds... she heard something from her old supplier explaining that the government is trying to regulate how many phosphates enter our water system (which is why we shouldn't flush medications) and Because us fish hobbyists do weekly water changes, and many of us novice fish ppl medicate unnecessarily, they feel this would put a spike into the water supply. or something like that. it makes sense i guess, but what a headache trying to get a hold of the drug! I talked to the BCVMA and there are only two fish vets in the area. Dr. Haulena at the vancouver aquarium (and yes i talked to him and tried to get him to come to my place for a christmas open house so he could diagnose my fish ) and another vet in campbell river who specializes in salmon.
Instructions were to do massive gravel clean and water change before treatment and lower lights and remove carbon. (i fed my plants about 5 days earlier with a commercial liquid fertilizer.) i had used another anti parasite medication about a week or so ago, but have done two water changes since then and added carbon to remove any reminants before using the levamisole HCL. you'll think this is horrible but i'm not sure what the substrate is... it was given to me by a friend from his established tank and told me it was great for growing plants. it may well be flourite based, as my plants have flourished with little work on my behalf. i have two fluvals of different sizes and one over the top filter that pours water into the tank (i'm sorry i don't know the specifics... that's my boyfriend's department!) we also have an airstone in the tank so i'm not concerned about the oxygen levels in the tank at all. i've never seen anyone "gasp" for air.
day1
the loaches stopped reacting to the meds after about an hour and by morning everyone seemed ok all be it a little stressed. And most fish except for the badly infected, seemed eager to eat their food in the morning.
My poor little keyhole cichlids were quite rough to start with and their stress colours were quite dark. (looked very marbled)
my rummy nosed tetras had shown signs of the camallanus worms first and while waiting to get my hands on the meds i lost 5. i have two left that were quite infected and i expect to lose them both as they look very poorly. after adding the meds the rummys have gone very pale (expected to be honest... they are so picky with their water parameters) and are acting rather skittish, but still show an interest in eating.
all of my fish are swimming close to the substrate, except for my guppies, gouramis, foxes and danios which for them is business as usual.
i should add as a side that all adult malaysian trumpet snails have been affected and are dead. the baby snails seem unaffected and come out every night. (so i will be doing a good clean of dead snails tonight!)
Day 2
two of my keyhole cichlids are looking quite perky and their vents are looking clear much to my relief. the three others are still working away at passing their respective worms... i will be putting a little ruffage in the tank tonight to hopefully get their little digestive systems working OT
i've lost one of the badly damaged rummies... she looked as if she was going to explode and as if she had a secondary bacterial infection on her side.
the clown loaches are out and about and harrassing everyone.
the only sign of the remaining worms seems to be in my last three cichlids. i'm hoping they will pass the worms quickly but they are so small as they are juveniles i'm a little worried. I will be doing the massive water change tonight and gravel clean and adding the carbon back into the filters as i don't want to expose them any longer. I know a lot of you were concerned for my fish and i appreciate it! i did double check what the lethal dose was and i was well..WELL under it, otherwise i would have immediately removed the meds. I only have my fish's well being in mind...and if i didn't feel like it was doing some good i would have stopped. (it's not good when you start to have fish nightmares!) when i do the second round of meds in about 2-3 wks i will reduce it to the recommended dosage of 2mg / L.
in regards to it being hard to find levamisole my fish lady at my lfs has a theory that it has to do with the phosphates that are in the commercially available meds... she heard something from her old supplier explaining that the government is trying to regulate how many phosphates enter our water system (which is why we shouldn't flush medications) and Because us fish hobbyists do weekly water changes, and many of us novice fish ppl medicate unnecessarily, they feel this would put a spike into the water supply. or something like that. it makes sense i guess, but what a headache trying to get a hold of the drug! I talked to the BCVMA and there are only two fish vets in the area. Dr. Haulena at the vancouver aquarium (and yes i talked to him and tried to get him to come to my place for a christmas open house so he could diagnose my fish ) and another vet in campbell river who specializes in salmon.
well... this would be nice but when you are new to the fish hobby then you have to take a chance and trust someone... and i found someone who had a lot of positive reviews. plus i'm trusting all of you right now in asking for your advice. i try and take all info with a grain of salt, but sometimes we are led astray...You are absolutely right that you shouldn't trust anybody with your own fish.
133 gallon planted freshwater tank
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
-
Emma Turner
- Posts: 8901
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
- Location: Peterborough, UK
- Contact:
so shoot.... i just read that the drug is a paralytic... so does this mean once i remove the medication the worms will become active again? Or are they forever paralyzed? i just got an update from home and one cichlid still has the worm sticking out his vent, like it did before the meds, and the other cichlid has a white stringy poop... not sure what this indicates. Everyone else is looking good. what should i do tonight when i get home?
here i am trusting again!
here i am trusting again!
133 gallon planted freshwater tank
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
4 clown loaches
15 rummy nosed tetras
3 siamese flying foxes
4 danios
5 keyhole cichlids
2 guppies
3 dwarf male gouramis
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