Skinny Clown w/ red gills

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tmcmullen
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Skinny Clown w/ red gills

Post by tmcmullen » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:26 am

I have two small clowns that I've had for about 2 months. I have been noticing that they aren't as active as they used to be, so I started keeping a closer eye on them. They are both skinny, one more than the other. They were bought from a reputable LFS. Both look like they are blushing, and I'm seeing a line on the sides that looks like maybe the skeleton - the typical line you see with clowns that have skinny or wasting disease. How can I be sure if they do or don't have a disease?

I've posted recently about another 8 yr old clown that is fat in the belly. She is still fat, and she and another large 8 yr old have been battling over food a lot recently. I think she's eating too much, but I'm not 100% sure. I wonder if the fighting over food might be why these little guys are so thin. I try to make sure they get plenty, but recently the thinnest one isn't even coming out at feeding time.

Recently (about 3 wks ago) I lost my 8 or 9 yr old Pleco, and a week later lost a molly. I don't have much luck with Mollies. The LFS thinks the Pleco was old and that may be why I lost him, but I lost a glow fish 2 days ago and before I lost him I didn't notice any problems with that one. I'm wondering if something could be attacking the fish in my tank. I have a 55 gal with Yoyos, clowns, rainbowfish, 1 dojo, and two giant danios.

I don't have the exact readings, but the LFS tested the water and said nitrates are good, PH is perfect, and nothing seems outside of normal range. Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated!

Also, should I isolate them? If they have wasting or skinny disease what are the chances the others in the tank will get it?

tmcmullen
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Post by tmcmullen » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:02 pm

I don't know if this will work, but here are a few pictures...
http://www.photoshop.com/user/tlmcmulle ... 7114a2b71b

Diana
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Post by Diana » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:56 pm

Link did not work for me.

1) Get your own test kit.
2) Isolate the small/young/skinny fish. They might be sick, or the bigger fish might be hogging all the food.

'reputable shop' or not, Loaches can be infected with a number of internal parasites and diseases when they are caught. The stress of capture, shipping etc. weakens their immune system and the infections and infestations start getting a better hold on the fish.

Begin treatment for 'skinny disease' and see if that helps.
Alternating wormer and antibiotics seems to be the best approach.

As for the biggest loach, the alpha position usually entitles that fish to more food. Can you spread out the food more so all the fish have a chance, and the one cannot guard it all?
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

tmcmullen
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Post by tmcmullen » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:25 pm

Okay, I'll isolate and treat.

I already spread the food around the tank, but the rainbowfish fight for it and most of the food is eaten by them before it hits the ground. I have try to fool them so that the sinking pellets will actually reach the bottom, otherwise they'll hold it in their mouths and spit it out only to grab it again and repeat until it's gone. It's a real pain! I feel like I'm overfeeding the rainbows just so my loaches can eat!!!

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zenins
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Post by zenins » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:06 pm

tmcmullen wrote:I already spread the food around the tank, but the rainbowfish fight for it and most of the food is eaten by them before it hits the ground. I have try to fool them so that the sinking pellets will actually reach the bottom, otherwise they'll hold it in their mouths and spit it out only to grab it again and repeat until it's gone. It's a real pain! I feel like I'm overfeeding the rainbows just so my loaches can eat!!!
Try putting the pellets in the tank an hour or two after lights out.
The rainbows will probably be sleeping, but the loaches will be active :wink:
Zenin

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tmcmullen
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Post by tmcmullen » Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:15 pm

Thanks, but if you've ever had rainbows you'll know that those little buggers are so darn interested in what is going on outside of the tank that they don't sleep until all lights are out! They're a lot of fun and it's great to watch them follow me from one end of the tank to the other, but they are hungry little guys too. I'm finding new ways to trick them. I sprinkle the flakes on one end while dropping pellets a the other end. :)

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zenins
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Post by zenins » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:48 pm

Another method I have tried is putting sinking pellets in a 5cm ( 2 inch ) diameter pipe and then placing it on the substrate. The other fish usually will not go in the pipe, but the loaches love it :D

You might have to experiment with other diameters, depending on the size of the other fish and your loaches :wink:
Zenin

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Diana
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Post by Diana » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:14 pm

Use sinking pellets and place them with a pipe in a cluster of rocks where the Loaches will get the food, and feed the Rainbows a food that floats or sinks very slowly.

Offer fresh (floats) and lightly cooked (until it sinks) vegetables of many sorts and see who eats what.
You could also attach a weight to fresh vegies so they sink, or use a vegie clip. Unfortunately this keeps the vegies in one place so the alpha Loach can hog it.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

tmcmullen
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Post by tmcmullen » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:09 am

Good advice. I'll try the pipe method and see if that works. Dropping flakes on one side while tossing in the sinking pellets on the other has been working out okay, it's just difficult to coordinate at times. I can drop the food directly under the large driftwood the loaches love and the rainbows will leave it alone! :)

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shari2
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Post by shari2 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:31 am

for the red gill issue I'd step up your water change regime. and definitely get your own test kit.
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tmcmullen
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Post by tmcmullen » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:13 pm

I did a water quality check with the test kit I bought yesterday. Here are the readings:

Nitrate 40
Nitrite 0
Hardness 75
Alkalinity 180
PH 7.8

My PH has never been high before, so I'm not sure why it is so high now.

Diana
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Post by Diana » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:06 pm

KH, also called alkalinity is a measure of carbonates. Carbonate acts as a buffer and will hold the pH that high. Do not worry about the pH.

Nitrate at 40 ppm is too high. I know some test kits say this is safe or borderline. Sorry, it is not. Do more water changes to get it down to half that. I generally keep the nitrates between 5-10 ppm just to be sure the plants are not deficient, but if something happens and the nitrate starts creeping up I do a water change before it reaches 20 ppm.

Test your tap water and post the results. If the tap water is about the same GH (General hardness), and KH (Alkalinity) then you can safely do some larger water changes. This will lower the nitrates quickly, yet not stress the fish.

If the GH and KH of the tap are more than 20 ppm higher or lower than the tank then do smaller, more frequent water changes. The fish cannot handle large changes in the mineral level of the water. After a while the tank water will be more like the tap water, and the nitrate will go lower. It will take several small water changes to notice it, though.

Last. If you want to worry about pH, then test and post the following:
Tap water pH right out of the tap.
Tap water pH on a sample that has sat out 24-48 hours.
Tap water KH

Also, list all the water conditioners and additives you are using.
List anything in the tank that might contribute to GH. KH or pH. Mostly these are minerals that dissolve in water such as limestone rock, gravel or sand, Coral sand or decor, Sea shells, and 'vacation feeders' that look like white rocks with bits of food embedded in them.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

tmcmullen
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:28 pm

Post by tmcmullen » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:30 am

Diana - I REALLY appreciate the detailed instructions and info you provided.

I tested my tap and it's
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
GH 0
KH 180
PH 7.8

Then did a partial water change and got
Nitrate 20
Nitrite 0
GH 75
KH 180
PH 7.8

I have a water softener, and I haven't been able to find the pellets that have "Iron out" in them. I've been here for almost 8 years now and have had this tank set up ever since with very little fatalities in my tank. I can't seem to keep mollies although I do have one now that has been in the tank for a few months - it's about the longest I've been able to keep a molly. My other fish - rainbows, clowns, and yoyos, have been fine, except last night i lost a clown who seemed to have wasting disease. Poor thing really fought, but lost the battle.

I'm adding new fish this afternoon. I had ordered a gold nugget pleco and I'm really anxious to add him to the tank. I hope the water parameters are good for him because he was very expensive.

tmcmullen
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Post by tmcmullen » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:46 pm

I am using Stress + in the tank, along with biozyme, aquarium salt at 1T per 5gals. and Aquarisol.

I have a very large piece of driftwood in my tank, some slate rock, and some "marbled" black and white rock which have both passed the vinegar fizzle test. There are a few other rocks in the tank which came from the beaches of Myrtle Beach, SC and they passed the vinegar test. I also have some quartz rock and another clear rock that looks like crystal, but I don't know what it is called. The only other items in the tank are artificial plants and a little cottage house made of resin.

Do you think the rock I'm using is okay? Does the vinegar test still work on rocks that have been in the tank for a few years?

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shari2
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Post by shari2 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:19 pm

your tap water is good.
the red gill issue was likely nitrate related. clowns really need clean water!
do more frequent water changes and alot of your issues will resolve themselves.

why the aquarisol?

sorry if I missed it but what size is the tank and what fish do you have in it?
books. gotta love em!
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