help with Ich

[Therese]

I am worried that I possibly have a problem with Ich in my aquarium. First, let me mention I am new to having an aquarium and have done many things wrong. I have a 44 gal. with: 2 clowns, 2 yo-yos, 2 golden dojos, 1 angelicus botia, 1 rainbow shark, 1 algae eater, and 1 hathchetfish. Until this am, I had another angelicus, found dead on the floor. It was small when I got it about 3 weeks ago, and no I unfortunately did not realize I should of kept it isolated for a time...I think it was sick to begin with. At any rate, I noticed these white specks on my clowns tonight..appetite has been good, but I thought one was hiding more this past week or so. Also, after a 25% water change 2 days agp, I added a "EcoBio-Stone" which reports to be safe for all fish. I see a lot of white particles in the water, and am not sure if it is a product of this stone, which reportedly releases beneficial bacteria, or not. Also, are these particles simply what I see on the fish. My questions:
1. How do I know it is Ick for sure? I have seen the fish seeming to do dives into the gravel with bodies, but not sure if this is normal as I am new to this. Have not seen them rubbing against anything. Also did not seen any white specks on the Angelicus that died.
2. If Ick, what is the best way to treat? I temperature is at 78 now...which already is above the comfort range of dojo.

I realize how much there is to learn and I don't want to be at the expense of these poor fish. Any experienced advice would be much appreciated.

[starsplitter7]

First of all, tell us where you're from -- country and region is helpful, because it is easier to recommend medication if you do have ick.

Second, read the sticky on ick really carefully, and start following the instructions carefully.

Third, do at least 25% water changes every day while you treat for ick or before you start. Keep temp and water parameters the same as tank water. Vacuum the tank during the water changes to help remove the ick swimming in the tank.

Always have a 10 gallon quarantine tank. I have two set up right now. One has baby Yoyos and Striatas and one has baby clowns. They will join the main tank soon, because they have all been super healthy. When the Q tanks aren't in use, you can put them away. I run a cycled filter on mine, so if my tank crashes, I always have a good filter to use.

How long has your tank been set up?

Good luck.

[Therese]

Hi...I am from South Florida (town called Lantana), USA. So I should go with the meds...and start water changes...is there a way to know for certain it is Ich, or based on what I said, you think I should assume it is?
The tank is 2 months old. The water readings have been stable/good for past few weeks re: ammonia/nitrite/nitrate level. I do have trouble with Ph. vacillating. Due to very hard alkaline water where I live, have had to use bottled purified water, which has quite low alkalinity...I have tried to add some of treated tap water towards gettting the perfect setting, but I notice ph will shoot up to 7.4 right after water change..will tend to go down to 6.8 within week. Not also so variable, but still a problem which I guess is adding stress.
Do you think the EcoBio-Stone could be a stress?

[starsplitter7]

If you can post a picture, that would help people make an idea. Generally ick looks like someone sprinkled the fish with salt. If you're not sure you have ick, just keep doing water changes until you can get a postive ID. You should see them scratching and they might be breathing heavily hanging out at the top of the tank. Drop the water level by an inch or so if you have a HOB filter, and let the water splash which will help bring oxygen into the water.

Looks like you are directly across from Ft. Myers. I am a bit north of there.

By good readings do you mean 0 for Ammonia and Nitrite and 10 or less for Nitrate? I think your bioload is probably too high for such a new tank. Loaches don't do well in new tanks. Do you have any fish friends who are local or a good fish store? I ask because if someone can give you gunk from their filters, it would really help your fish. I try to do water changes every 1-2 weeks. I do gravel vacuums every two weeks.

I have the same problems with my water that you do. Comes out of the tap at 7.4 and drops to 6-6.5 in a few days. Doesn't really bother my fish, because I do my water changes all the time. I use tap water treated with Prime.

I don't know what an eco bio-stone is. Is it supposed to have good bacteria to help with cycling?

[Therese]

Hi...I am just a few hours away from you by car, which is anice coinicidence since I am new to loaches as well as this site and to posting messages. The ecobio-stone "contains beneficial bacteria" and so yes I believed it would help keep the water more clear. I definitely am new to fish...a neighbor had a tenant whom abandoned the house, leaving a rainbow shark...so he was adopted, and in trying to find out fish he would get along with, I came across loaches, which my shark loves (except the dojos) and me too.
I will try to get a picture of my clowns...they are the only ones I saw with the white specs, which seemed less yesterday. I had been doing water changes religiously and frequently for several weeks to complete nitrogen cycle and last 2 weeks had settled on a weekly 25% change, with most recent reading ammonia .25, nitrite 0, nitrate 40. IThe fish had seemed extremely healthy I would say, doubling in size in 2 months...except my most recent addition, the Angelicus that died. The clowns seem to be hiding more, but that is hard to say, as they have consistently been in caves a lot, most seen in morning and early evening. I have not seen repeated rubbing against rock or gravel. I will try to take a picture...can it be attached to forumn response

[starsplitter7]

Too bad you are so far away -- my local Aquarium club is having a huge auction this weekend with at least 400 bags of fish, lots of amazing supplies and lots of free stuff like food. I will take pictures and post. It does seem we have a lot of loach keepers in Florida, but there have been more people on LOL from Florida over he last year or so.

To post pictures, upload them to a host site like photobucket, and then copy and paste the img link and click preview to make sure it took.

So you are a rescue fish keeper. Almost everyone seems to have a difficult introduction to fish keeping, but stick to LOL, and you will become an excellent fish keeper. Almost everything I have learned about fish, I have learned from here. New tanks are very difficult, don't give up. Keep up your water changes, and things will sort out. I have made every mistake there is, and I luckily I learn from the mistakes. What water conditioning product do you use?

[Therese]

I have not been able to get good pic, but I have gone with the assumption they have ich and have started "Ich attack"...I saw a positive reference to it somewhere and I really want to avoid the chemicals that themselves can kill. I believe I may have coused the ich with my most recent water change...I was assuming that the bottled water was approximately same temp as tank...as it had been in house several days and the temps were close, but not close enough, as it had been cooler...when I checked a bottle with a digital therm it was a good 6 degrees cooler, and I imagine that is enough of a difference to cause a problem.

[starsplitter7]

I don't think 6 degrees would make that much of a difference, especially in a 44 gallon tank. How much water did you change? I do bunches of water changes. Last night I changed 15 gallons on my 55 gallon, and today I will do another 15-20. Normally I don't do them back to back, but I want better conditions in the tank, because I have new inhabitants I want to add to the tank. They have been in quarantine for 1-3 months, and they are ready to go to the main tank.

I think more likely, your tank hasn't cycled properly with so many loaches. They are very sensitive and do well in new tanks. Your readings should be Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0 and Nitrate 20 or less.

When you add meds, watch your fish carefully. I have lost fish from bad reactions to medication. Follow the course of treatment, but with loaches, it is usually recommended to use half doses of medicine.

[Therese]

I did a 25% water change...left plenty of room at top for oxygen. The "Ich attack" is apparently "herbal"versus a typical medicine, but it says it can take up to 5 weeks...I plan to give it a few days to see it it is having a sufficient effect...I am seeing just very few white spots. I am concerned something else is wrong. I realize now I should not have started with so many fish (I wish the expert selling us the tank shared that information), I just hope they don't pay the price for my on- the -job training. When starting this tank up, I did add 2 gals of e vaccuumed floor from an existing10 gal tank, but I know now that is not the same as adding an existing/used filter (re: cycling/beneficial bacteria.

I am concerned now with water quality, as I had to take carbon filter out for the treatment. I put in a foam filter but it is not as perfect a fit. Fish seem sluggish. I am breaking the tx dose into halves, so that it is twice per day and I will do another water change. I also read up on the Diatom Filter and have ordered one from amazon.com. It should come early next week. This is nerve-wracking, and don't know if I am cut out for being a aquariast (is that a word?). They are so dependent on their keeper.
Thank you so much for your information and support!

[Diana]

You sure got taken in by the stone thing.
A properly cycled tank does not need anything like that. The claims made seem out of line with other research by Ph D. scientists.
The properly identified nitrifying bacteria are in the genus Nitrospiros, and they do not enter any sort of dormant phase that allows them to dry out. Incorporating these species in a composite rock is not going to work. There are other species that actually are identified as taking part in cycling the tank, too. The specie claimed in the web site is not the correct specie that you are trying to grow when you are cycling the tank.

http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/Library_P ... apers.html
Skip the item about sea salt, and scroll down to the 2 articles about ammonia and nitrite in the aquarium. The bacteria researched in these articles are not any of the bacteria that had been used in any cycling product before. They were hard to grow in the lab in a way that they could be identified.

I would remove the stone and try to get your money back. Maybe it is releasing white bits into your water.

Do enough water changes during cycling to keep the ammonia under .25 ppm, the nitrite under 1 ppm and when the nitrate shows up keep it under 20 ppm for sure, and lower is better.

Part of the treatment for Ich includes lots of water changes, emphasizing gravel vacs, so it should be easy to help the fish through the last bit of cycling.

[starsplitter7]

We all learn from the mistakes we make in fishkeeping, and it is a sharp learning curve. Unfortunately, it is not profitable for stores to give out accurate information. I used to work at a fish store, and they did not appreciate me giving out correct information. So much easier to let customers kill their fish, so they can buy more. Or buy products they don't need or don't work, . . .

Once you get your tank cycled, things will go a lot easier if you continue with regular water changes, Don't give up.

[Therese]

Thanks for the support. Over the weekend, I thought there were more white spots...but still only seen on clown loaches...but today, there seemed to be much less, so I am hoping the Ich Attack is taking effect. I think the ich came with the angelicus botia that subsequently died, which I put in the tankon 12/26 (It died exactly 3 weeks later). I don't plan to add more fish to this tank...but if I ever do, to any tank, I have learned the importance of keeping the new fish in a separate observation/treatment tank.

I did take the biostone out of tank that first day I wrote about this problem, since I did have a fish die less then 48 hours after placing it in the tank. I have one of the stones in my 10-gallon tank however and have had no problems, including specks on fish...that's what made me realize the other tank had ich or some other disease. I think if anything those stones are inert, but not toxic...the other tank is doing well, and I must say the water quite clear.

Regarding the 44 gal tank where my loaches live: My ammonnia level has been .25 or less for past few weeks, and nitrite at 0. the nitrate had highs of 40 a couple of times (these are all readings via test tube kit by the way), but down to 20 last 2 weeks. For several weeks I was doing partial water changes daily, until the levels were below the proscribed "danger " level. I thought then I had reached a point of some stability, and was doing weekly water changes past month. How long will it be for completing the "cycle"?

I do wonder if my low kh ,due to using the purified water, which I read can cause that dip in ph over time/ ph instability, is a problem, although you mentioned it hasn't been for you. I'm thinking that if I switch to a 15% water change twice/wk versus the 25% weekly change I could help it stay more stable. What do you think?

[starsplitter7]

If a tank is extremely lightly stocked, it takes about 6 weeks or so (from what I have read), and then each time you add a fish, you wait for more bacteria to grow. Then add another fish, . . . you need enough bacteria so it eats the ammonia and turns it into Nitrite, Then another bacteria grows to eat the nitrite turning it to nitrate, and then you vacuum out the nitrate.

One thing I do is run two or more filters on every tank I own. This way if a filter dies, the other works, and if I need to set up a Q tank in hurry, I have a cycled filter ready to go and so the tank is instantly cycled. Don't just keep a Q tank for new fish. Have one ready in case you have a sick fish. I have three empty tanks in my closet and so I can set up quarantine tanks instantly.

I bet the vacuuming and water changes are helping a lot with the ick. Once you get rid of the ick, you can reduce the water changes to once or twice a week. Right now, the ick has to be vacuumed out until yu get rid of all of it. And you have tp treat even after you haven't seen any. Follow the instructions carefully.

Then your water should settle down. My water is pretty stable, even though it is a lot like yours. Good luck and things will get better.

[Therese]

One full week with Ich Attack, and saw no white spots today...will continue tx for 4 more days...

[starsplitter7]

That sounds very hopeful.