Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

This forum is for all health-related questions on Loaches and other freshwater fish.

Moderator: LoachForumModerators

Post Reply
Babba
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Babba » Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:50 pm

Hi there everyone.
I am new here, but I hope you dont mind me dropping in with a rather backwards question?

Basically I have tried angelfish experts to no avail, so I thought I would start at the other end of my tank!
I have some sort of pathogen in my 200L tank that is effecting my Angelfish only. All my other fish seem fine - including my precious clown loach (which is good!).
The symptom on the angelfish is a milky grey appearance all over. I gather it is their slime coat going haywire. but it is not coming off, and it is not patchy. they just look painted.

History: I added 2 corys about 3 weeks ago that had not been fully quarenteened (I know I am an idiot). About 2 weeks ago I noticed my 3 adult angels covered in this grey sheen. They were still eating eagerly, but had clamped fins and looked generally unhappy. No other fish seemed affected at all. So thinking parasites, I removed the sick angels to a hospital tank and treated with a salt dip and white spot cure. I treated the main tank with half strength white spot cure (because of the loach). I repeated the dose as per the bottle.

After a week I added some healthy juvenile angelfish culls to the main tank as a test, as all the other fish still seemed healthy. In 2 days the culls had built up the same grey appearance. The 3 angels in the hospital tank are no better or worse - still look miserable but still eating if I feed them.

Now what brings me to your site is that I thought that, being scaleless fish, my clown loach would be badly effected by anything external long before scale fish are infected. I am wondering if anyone can suggest something that would effect anglefish in this way but not clown loaches?

Other fish in the tank are mollies, corys and rummy nose tetras - all healthy. I am an amature angel fish breeder with 6 other fishtanks with angels - none of which are affected (yet). Tanks parameters PH7.7 Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5 to 10. Normally water changes 30% weekly.

Jules
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:54 am
Location: Peterborough, UK.

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Jules » Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:29 am

Hello there.

I had a quick Google re Angelfish and app there is something called Angelfish Virus/Angelfish Aids....? I don't know if this is something you have already investigated or considered however.

Not having kept the species myself, I really can't help any further but thought I would mention this in passing, just in case...

Hopefully someone will be able to help you who has experience of these fish.

Good luck !!

:)

Babba
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Babba » Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:37 am

No I have not heard of this... I will do some research - thanks. Frankly I am ready to consider anything!

Babba
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Babba » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:00 am

Jules wrote:Hello there.

I had a quick Google re Angelfish and app there is something called Angelfish Virus/Angelfish Aids....? I don't know if this is something you have already investigated or considered however.

Not having kept the species myself, I really can't help any further but thought I would mention this in passing, just in case...

Hopefully someone will be able to help you who has experience of these fish.

Good luck !!

:)
Had a read on the net - gosh what a horrible disease! I dont think it quite fits at least maybe not in the same form of the 80s.... The first 3 fish are still alive after 2 weeks of symptoms. They talk of whole tanks being wiped out in 24 hours. And unlike the fish described on the net, mine still have an appetite. Hope it isnt anyway. I have several batches of fry and juveniles in the same room. Its a good reminder to be careful not to cross contaminate though. I am going to try a dose of Tri Sulfa tonight I guess, unless someone else has any ideas. :?

Jules
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 1:54 am
Location: Peterborough, UK.

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Jules » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:19 am

It does sounds a horrible thing to catch in the fish, doesn't it ??!!!

Do hope you manage to find a solution. Your water parameters seem fine; anything you've added to the tank recently...airborne pollutants etc ?

Snatching at straws here.....

Babba
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Babba » Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:06 am

The only other thing I can think of is the drift wood in my tank I aquired at xmas time from a river side. But it has been in the tank since January. I treated it. and you would think it would have caused a problem before now.... I just dont know, I cant think of something that would not effect the clownloach and tetras at all. I mean it doesnt take a lot of stress for a clown to pale down - but he is bright and happy swimming around with his adopted cory friends sucking up snails :) . (I think he thinks he is just a big 12cm cory lol)

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Diana » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:19 pm

Scroll down to post #4
http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/show ... 56&t=22027

If this is some form of Ich, then a single treatment (one dose) or a short treatment (several days or a week) is not likely to properly handle the problem.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

Babba
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Babba » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:04 am

thanks for that, I will have a read.

I have had good luck treating the 3 angels (now 2 angels :( ) in the hospital tank - in the end I used an salt dip at 32 deg. I lost one angel and apparently cured the other 2. (I am waiting to make sure that it does not reoccur of course.

But now I need to treat the main tank of course. The non angel species are still not showing symptoms oddly enough. However I put a couple of juvinile angelfish "culls" in this main tank as a test and they are now showing symptoms. So the pathogen is still there - it just seems selective.

I think I would be more distressed to loose my loach than my angels at this point. And I am worried about causing him distress/death from the treatment, when he appears unaffected by the bug. Obviously he and the corys wont tolerate the salt dip as described above. However it appears from my reading that my clown loach will tolerate up to 30 deg. How much salt will he take? I am thinking of just raising the temp in the 200L main tank to 30, and adding as much salt as the fish will tolerate and leaving it for 3 days then slowly winding it back down. It may or may not be enough. But it is worth a try. Any thoughts?

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Diana » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:51 pm

You are right, many cats and loaches do not handle salt well.
You can make it as easy as possible for them by raising the level slowly. If the total dose you want is 1 tablespoon per 10 gallons (a safe level for delicate fish) then do it this way:
1st day add 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons by dissolving the salt in some water and pouring it in over several hours.
2nd day., same.
3rd day, same.

Maintain it at this level for the duration of the treatment. If you want to do a water change then add salt to the new water at the rate of 1 tablespoon of salt per 10 gallons of new water.

When the treatment is done simply stop adding salt to the new water. Do not do massive water changes to drop the level of salt. You want the level to go down slowly.

When you want to raise the temperature in the tank increase the aeration. Warm water holds less oxygen.

Have you tried an ultraviolet sterilizer? This will kill many organisms that drift in the water, looking for a new host.
You can combine UV with salt, but I would not combine UV with other meds. The UV might deactivate the other meds, many are sensitive to light.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

Babba
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Babba » Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:15 am

actually I have never considered UV at all. Is it effective? I might do some research. Thanks for the other tips; I will do this gradual increase easily enough.

Babba
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Babba » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:53 am

just a quick update post to say thankyou for your ideas and help. Most of my angels and my clown survived and are now happy healthy fish again. Most of the day my clown loach - which is the bigest fish in the tank, swims around grazing with a trail of other fish (tetras angels and corys) following closely behind waiting with anticiapation as to what tidbits he will kick up for them to feed on. very entertaining to watch - it looks like a parade. :D

Anyway a belated thanks for your help.

starsplitter7
Posts: 5054
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by starsplitter7 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:58 pm

Thanks for the update and good to hear. Please post a video. That would be fantastic to see -- the large clown in the lead of the parade. Did you figure out what was wrong exactly and how did you fix it?

Babba
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 11:22 pm

Re: Healthy clown loach but sick angels and out of ideas!

Post by Babba » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:59 am

starsplitter7 wrote:Thanks for the update and good to hear. Please post a video. That would be fantastic to see -- the large clown in the lead of the parade. Did you figure out what was wrong exactly and how did you fix it?
salt dip, trisulfa and raised temps for the angels in a seperate tank. I then followed the above ideas for salt and temp on the main tank - even though it appeared unaffected I figured it was infected with what ever it was. I left the angels seperated for a month, then one by one reintroduced them back to the main tank. What ever it was did not reoccur. I lost one angel but that was all. I was very lucky - and now have a quarentine tank - lesson learned. Actually my clown has been that much more active since the treatment I wonder if he wasnt slightly effected despite his healthy appearance. Good news all round.
I'll have to work on the video thing - that would be cool - I dont have a video device at the moment.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 43 guests