recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

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erilo2000
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Montreal

recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by erilo2000 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:23 pm

I've recently bought 5 zebra loaches and I wanted to ask you all something about it.

When I added the zebra loaches they were easily settled and didn't look all that stressed.
However now they fight most of the time and 2 of the 3 aren't as active or eat as much.

I haven't seen these 2 eat at all however I don't want to claim they haven't eaten because I'm not always around to check this.
These 2 aren't the smallest size but aren't the biggest either.
I've tried to feed them different flakes, pellets and brine but these 2 seem to completely ignore the food.

"Duke", my biggest loach, has claimed one vase as his hiding spots and chases away any fish that gets near and will chase them all around the aquarium.
They all seem very active and happy on the first day.

Should I be worried or is this normal? I don't want to die on me because they are very adorable!

Here is some more information:

Tank:
Size: 37G / 140L
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 0ppm
pH: 7.4 / 7.6
Temp: 24,28 C / 76,82.5 F

Care:
10% water change with siphon every Wednesday
+Anti Stress
+De-chlorinate
Filter: Rena XP2 cleaned 1st day of the month

Inhabitants:
2.1 Platy. (I have a baby)
6 Cardinal Tetra
4 Guppies
5 Zebra Loaches

Recently added:
Bubble wall (runs 24/7)
Decoration. 1 Vase in which they can hide. There was one already in there but I've added an extra one.
~I love loaches. I love every kind of loach. I just want to hug all! But I can't hug every loach!~
I'm sorry I'm thinking about loaches again. ;-;

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by Diana » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:44 pm

Mostly Zebras are pretty peaceful, but it sounds like one of yours is more strongly dominant that average for the species.
Some chasing and so on is fine, as long as they are not getting hurt. Sometimes it is hard for us to tell when they are playing, establishing some social order, or actually fighting. If the others are giving way, and the dominant Zebra is not hurting them, then I think they are just working on who is the boss.

Maybe give them more caves so they do not have to share that one. Or move the second one, maybe it is not in the right spot for them.

Some not eating is more of a problem, I would think. If you can flavor the food with garlic this may tempt them to eat.
Crush a clove of garlic and soak the food in it. You can feed the garlic as well as the fish food. Some fish like garlic.
More natural foods such as frozen foods are often more attractive, and best of all are live foods.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

erilo2000
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by erilo2000 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:03 pm

Hi Diana,

Thanks for the reply.

I've changed the setup a little bit and I've noticed that the loaches are now also using the other vase during the night. In the morning they prefer to hide on top of it or behind it. I haven't tried the garlic yet as I didn't had any in the house and wasn't able to buy any.

Yesterday I fed them flakes and cucumber. I made sure to put two pieces in there and placed them far apart so that my big loach (Duke) can't bother them.
They really loved it! I saw all of them eat from it however the 2 problem cases didn't eat that much from it.

Duke seems a bit more chill. He/she is still chasing fish around especially during feeding but in the later hours of the day he does it less. And he/she let someone sleep in his vase.

I'm going to keep an eye on the other 2 but I'm tempted to return them because I don't want them to starve to death.
I also read that Zebra loaches can become reclusive and aggressive if there aren't enough of their own species in the tank. Should I maybe add one?

Here are some photos of the two. I'm going to make better photos tomorrow with my dslr camera.

Here is Scarface:
Image
I don't know if it's actually a scar or that he just doesn't have color there. He had this before I got him.

And here is the other.
Image
He doesn't have a name yet.

And here a youtube movie;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjSrBUgQ4ZM
~I love loaches. I love every kind of loach. I just want to hug all! But I can't hug every loach!~
I'm sorry I'm thinking about loaches again. ;-;

erilo2000
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by erilo2000 » Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:26 pm

I'm sad to report that both of have died. :(

We spotted them every now and then eating from the cucumber or trying to eat from the pellets but my aggressive loach kept chasing them away. Because of this we decided to keep them instead of returning them to the store. But this was like a week ago. Then it only got worse and they didn't want to move at all.

As a last resort I tried to move both of them in a 10gallon holding tank. This way they wouldn't be chased around by the bigger loach (Duke).

Now I have 3 loaches remaining in my 37gallon tank. They seem to be fine in there. Duke "seems" to be less aggressive but he still chases the other loaches.
I've added a big piece of wood in which they can hide under. Duke seems very interesting in it.

Anyway.
I know you are supposed to keep Zebra loaches in groups of at least 5 or more. But if I have 3 in a 37 gallon tank and they are active should I still get more?
I'm afraid that if I get new onces that they will get chased and also die.

So I thought of a couple of things that I could do and I would love to hear the opinions of the experianced loach keepers.

1) Keep the 3 in my 37 gallon tank. (Dimensions 18inch deep, 20 wide, 20something high) And see how things go.
2) Move the aggressive loach out.
3) Get more hiding spots.
4) Return all loaches to the store. 37 gallon with those dimensions is not suitable for these fish.
5) Get a bigger tank.
6) Something else?

I don't know what to do at the moment

I'm tempted to return them all because I have the feeling my tank isn't suitable for them.
I'm also tempted to buy a new tank. I've visited someone today that was selling a 120g tank. His tank was 6 foot long, 15 inches deep and 20inches high. Would this be a good tank for loaches? If so which kind of loaches? Will Clown loaches be fine in that tank?

I also read that some Zebra loaches chase each other and that this is their way of playing. Is it possible that my aggressive loach isn't aggressive at all but just wants to play and is very rough?

I hope to hear soon from you all.
~I love loaches. I love every kind of loach. I just want to hug all! But I can't hug every loach!~
I'm sorry I'm thinking about loaches again. ;-;

boxercrazy156
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:08 pm

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by boxercrazy156 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:34 pm

I have 8 golden zebra loaches and one queen loach I started with 2 queen loaches and one was really aggressive the other was smallet and hid I bought a 3rd larger golden loach since they are so hard to find it was all I could do so the bigger one became the peacekeeper and life resumed normally untill the peacekeeper got out of my tank and died so it went back to the 2 with one hiding. after a while I found 2 golden zebra loaches to add to see it they would become a group the first few hours the bossy Queen chased them and then gave up the Golden Zebras are far more active so they keep going 24/7 I did notice the 2 golden zebras do a swirl fight and when they do this they loose all their color. They never hurt each other and usually tire out and that is that my agressive queen loach at this point started lying around alot. We recently purchased a 120 gallon tank and I wanted to put to groups of 8 loaches in it so I bought 6 more golden zebra loaches to quarrantine in my 30 gallon tank. The first few days I saw a bit of the swirling but now never. BTW I have heard that the large bossy loaches are usually females so duke is duchess
Last edited by boxercrazy156 on Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

boxercrazy156
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:08 pm

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by boxercrazy156 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Also I have had loaches that stopped eating and were lying around after adding some fish, one even disappeared and I thought it was dead but I treated with Marcyn 2 and the first one that was acting strange was better in a day and a half and the one that I thought was dead appeared lying around on the 3rd day and by the end of the day it was back to normal unfortunatley I lost one before I figured this out but the other 2 came around

erilo2000
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by erilo2000 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:41 pm

Hi Boxercrazy156,

Thanks for your reply.

I'm very happy to hear that your loaches are happy in the new 120 gallon tank.
I'm currently looking for a larger tank. Sadly I can't get a 120 gallon because I live in an apartment with wooden floors. It would simply not hold.

So I'm activily looking for a 70 +/- gallon tank for now.
Next year I'm moving and then I will get a even bigger tank. 120/150+ gallon.

Me and my girlfriend have renamed Duke to Duchess. :)
~I love loaches. I love every kind of loach. I just want to hug all! But I can't hug every loach!~
I'm sorry I'm thinking about loaches again. ;-;

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by Diana » Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:38 pm

Look at the picture of the Loaches that died. (So sorry :( )

Behind the head the fish looks sort of hollow.
In the belly area the fish is concave.

Both of these are signs the fish is not getting enough food, for any of several reasons.
In this particular tank there was a bully fish that kept chasing them away from the food. The problem may have started earlier, though, and had other components.

This sort of 'too lean' look is also seen when the fish have Skinny Disease.
This is not a specific disease, but a symptom of a problem that is common among Loaches, and seen among other fish, though not as common. The fish seem to have a combination of parasites and bacterial infection. Treatment is done in a quarantine tank when you first purchase the fish, before moving them to the main tank. I treat all Loaches and bottom fish this way.
Alternate medications that kill internal parasites ('worms') and antibiotics. Often the wormer is dosed for about 3 days then a break of about a week, then 3 more days of wormer, then a break, then 3 more days of medication. This is aimed at the life cycle of many of these parasites: They are susceptible to medicines only at certain times. The intermittent treatment can be fine tuned to match a specific parasite, if you can find out which the fish have (and if there is only one parasite- fish might have 2 or more internal parasites).
In the pause between worming treatments, use antibiotics. Often the treatment is 5 days, a water change, then repeat if needed.
If you can get Levamisole it is a very good choice as a wormer. It has a side effect of boosting the immune system.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

erilo2000
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by erilo2000 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:56 pm

Hi Dianna,

Thanks for the reply.
I will take a look at what the stores are selling here. I have bought a 70 gallon tank today which will become my main tank. (Which I will start cycling tomorrow)
The 37 gallon tank I have now will become my holding tank. And I will treat my current loaches and my future loaches as you recommended.

Better to be safe then sorry.

Would it be wise to treat all of my fish with a de-wormer now? I've never treated them for anything.
There are currently platy's, guppy's, neon cardinals and loaches in the tank.
I have another tank but that is only 10 gallon. So I could move some of the fish out.
~I love loaches. I love every kind of loach. I just want to hug all! But I can't hug every loach!~
I'm sorry I'm thinking about loaches again. ;-;

erilo2000
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:23 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: recently got new zebra loaches. They are fighting?

Post by erilo2000 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:07 pm

Diana was right. One of my fish had a worm.

I wasn't able to get the de-wormer Diana recommended but I was able to get Prazi Pro.
Today I treated my tank with it and 15 minutes after I put the stuff in one of my guppies pooped out a worm.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/6568108/worm.jpg

Yuck! Well I'm happy that stuff works.
~I love loaches. I love every kind of loach. I just want to hug all! But I can't hug every loach!~
I'm sorry I'm thinking about loaches again. ;-;

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