Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

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starsplitter7
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Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by starsplitter7 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:15 am

It is the worst to lose fish, and certain ones are like losing old friends. I am very sorry for your loss. Everything can be fine one day, and a mess the next.

Watch the plants carefully. Sometimes they do not adapt well and if they die, they can turn a tank really fast. They will absorb nitrates and add oxygen, when they are happy and your fish will love them. Just keep an eye on them and pull them out as they die. I lost 7 loaches when I was on vacation in Germany, and my anacharis died. My poor mom didn't know what the problem was, but she was a trooper and changed gobs of water. She saved the rest of the tank.

It sounds like you got your tank under control. All that oxygen and fresh water probably makes everyone feel great.

birddancer
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:30 pm

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by birddancer » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:29 pm

starsplitter7 wrote:It is the worst to lose fish, and certain ones are like losing old friends. I am very sorry for your loss. Everything can be fine one day, and a mess the next.

Watch the plants carefully. Sometimes they do not adapt well and if they die, they can turn a tank really fast. They will absorb nitrates and add oxygen, when they are happy and your fish will love them. Just keep an eye on them and pull them out as they die. I lost 7 loaches when I was on vacation in Germany, and my anacharis died. My poor mom didn't know what the problem was, but she was a trooper and changed gobs of water. She saved the rest of the tank.

It sounds like you got your tank under control. All that oxygen and fresh water probably makes everyone feel great.

Thanks Star.

I'm picking up loose leaves daily and watching the plants closely for signs of ill health.

Morning all!

Test results this morning:

Ph 6.0
Nitrites 0.0
AMM .50

I'm going to guess that the rise in ammonia levels (from 0.25 yesterday morn) can be attributed to the triple dose of prime I added to the tank before my 50% PWC the night before last?

The Seachem ammonia alert i've hung in my tank since last weekend still hasn't moved from "safe". I did test it last night with a bottle of cloudy ammonia from the supermarket. It went dark purple in less than a second.

Fish are super happy and healthy ATM. But I will definatley keep testing. I just want to leave the poor things alone for a couple of days. Let the tank stabilize and do another full test to see what we have going on.

starsplitter7
Posts: 5054
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by starsplitter7 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:45 pm

Sounds like a plan. But with it hitting .5, I would do a 20% change. :) And hope it is a false reading. Glad your Seachem sensor is working. Watch the way the fish are behaving and breathing. If they are swimming where they should and not gasping, they are probably okay. if they are at the top, gasping, breathing fast, change the water.

Do you have snails? If your snails all go up, change the water. Snails are great canaries in the coal mine.

birddancer
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:30 pm

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by birddancer » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:14 pm

starsplitter7 wrote:Sounds like a plan. But with it hitting .5, I would do a 20% change. :) And hope it is a false reading. Glad your Seachem sensor is working. Watch the way the fish are behaving and breathing. If they are swimming where they should and not gasping, they are probably okay. if they are at the top, gasping, breathing fast, change the water.

Do you have snails? If your snails all go up, change the water. Snails are great canaries in the coal mine.
Thanks Star,
I finally equipped myself with a JBL ammonium test, my results this morning were;
AMMONIA API 1.0
AMMONIUM JBL 0.0
NITRITE 0.0
AMMONIA (Seachem Alert) 0.0 safe
So my question would be, I haven't added any Prime since my last water change (50%) on Monday Night. Should I be worried about the API ammonia test coming up at 1.0?
It's funny you should say watch the fish behaviour because I had to laugh yesterday, I've only been feeding every second day so the folks are quite hungry. I actually caught my team of 4 adult congo tetra's shuffling through the gravel alongside my clown loaches and bronze corydoras!! hahahaha. Anyone with Congos with attest that they are ultra-top dwellers, mine rarely venture below halfway down the tank. LOL.

But seriously I don't have any "gulpers" whatsoever. Everyone is very chilled. My loaches are doing their nightly loach dance at the front of the tank and my corys have even started playing in the bubbles from the airstones :) It's very comforting to know they are finally comfortable. My biggest loach, a girl I've had for almost 5 years has also re-appeared. Ive been a little worried.

birddancer
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:30 pm

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by birddancer » Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:20 pm

This is the JBL test I'm talking about;

http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwate ... etail/2438

starsplitter7
Posts: 5054
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by starsplitter7 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:02 pm

I think if you have loach dancing you are good. That is a sign of healthy water to me. I think behavior can predict good water almost as well as a test. Unfortunately, I am not terribly tech oriented and so ammonia is a bit a mystery to me other than the stuff I told you I know from experience.

Diana
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by Diana » Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:36 am

As long as any of the tests are showing up with ammonia that is not so good.

Does the water company use chloramine? Or chlorine? Or some other method?

I would continue going over the tank, vacuuming and cleaning the filters in rotation.

Since your tap water is almost the same as the tank (very low GH, KH and pH) go ahead and do as large water changes as you need to.

The problem is: The nitrifying bacteria do not grow well when the KH and pH are so low.

I think you are going to have to rely on plants for the majority of the bio filtration, unless you can get the KH to stay a bit higher, and the pH to stay a bit higher.

After that really large water change several posts ago, (70%, new water pH 6.4) the tank seems to have dropped back down (pH 6.0).
This tells me that things are still not on track, this tank is still having problems. Can you also post the KH of tap and tank?

Aquatic plants remove ammonia first, it is their favorite source of nitrogen. By removing most of the ammonia they are leaving very little for the nitrifying bacteria to deal with, so it is not surprising that there is so little nitrite or nitrate showing up. Keep treating the plants right, with plenty of light, and perhaps some fertilizer (no nitrogen ferts, though) to encourage them to thrive. The fastest growing plants can totally remove all the ammonia the fish are producing.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

starsplitter7
Posts: 5054
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by starsplitter7 » Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:10 am

I know Prime gives a false positive with the API test. It is explained on the Prime website.

I would do exactly as Diana advises. Someday I hope to know half as much about water chemistry as she does.

birddancer
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:30 pm

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by birddancer » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:54 pm

Well! It's been a couple weeks since my last post but I am pleased to announce my tank has bounced bank to full health. :D :D

I wanted to come by to thank EVERYONE for their advice and suggestions. I definitely couldn't have done it without you.

After my last post, I did leave the tank alone for almost a week without water changes and without treatment (but still testing twice daily just in case). I did add a even MORE plants, and of different varieties. The tank looks like a lovely rainforest and my community just love it.

There were some positive signs with the PH very slowly recovering to 6.4. And the WATER! my goodness the water!!! Became so crystal clear like I've never seen it. The API ammonia test still showed 1.0 but that slowly came down to 0, and my JBL Ammonium tests and Seachem hang in the tank test both confirmed it was non toxic.

I do still have 40 nitrates but I pretty much always have. It is a giant tank after all, but with weekly 25% PWC I hope to get that down to under 10 eventually :)

THANKS AGAIN !!!

birddancer
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:30 pm

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by birddancer » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:00 pm

I should also add that I did use NITE OUT 2, after the PH got to 6.4. I believe that and the plants had alot to do with the re-stablization of my tank.

starsplitter7
Posts: 5054
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:04 pm
Location: Tampa, Florida

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by starsplitter7 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:31 pm

Good to hear. :)

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Sudden loss of fish including loaches 6ft tank

Post by Diana » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:12 pm

That is really good.
Nite Out II is one of the products with the correct species of bacteria, so the big boost in bacteria, plus all the plants has turned the corner for you.

I would maintain things this way for a while:

Test weekly and monitor the test results, doing larger or extra water changes if needed.
Vacuum the floor of the tank with every water change. You may not get over all of it at one time, but rotate so that over perhaps a month all the tank gets vacuumed.
Clean one filter every week until you get a good feel for if they could go longer. Continue to use old tank water for cleaning the filters. Do not let them get really bad. The debris in the filter is really still in the tank system, decomposing and demanding its share of oxygen for the decomposer bacteria, and contributing ammonia to the system. Better to remove the debris faster.
Monitor the KH very carefully and add carbonates such as sodium bicarbonate as needed to keep the KH up. The nitrifying bacteria need the carbon from the carbonates.
Add whatever fertilizer might be needed by the plants to keep them thriving. Most fish food is fairly high in most nutrients, but low in potassium and iron. You might start with those.
Add a CO2 supplement like Excel. Start with a low dose and see how the fish and the plants respond. Some plants do not like it.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

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