Never had ich before... Please help!

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ageewax
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:40 am

Never had ich before... Please help!

Post by ageewax » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:04 am

Hi everyone.

I am sure there are several posts about ich, but I want to make sure the advice I get it is specific to my situation. I've had my clown loach for about five years now. We recently got him another clown loach buddy and four tiger barbs. We also recently upgraded to a 55 gallon tank. Yes, I am aware that we will need a bigger tank for the loaches in a few years. Right now, that was what we could afford. In the process of setting up the new 55 gallon, we transferred the fish into a small 10 gallon tank and do daily water changes to help with the overload.

I should probably mention the preferences of my fish. He's a bit of an oddball from what I can see. First, he survived while I was away for 1 year in Ecuador under the care of my mother. She "doesn't do" water changes... So that's one year of no cleaning. She also didn't want to replace the water that had evaporated, so she just unplugged the heater. In the winter in Pennsylvania. So basically all she did was toss food in. By the time I got home, there was about two gallons of green sludge in the tank. After the water changing, or rather replacing, the loach was fine. He's never had a disease.

If the water temperature gets below 80, he tends to get stressed. He is much happier with some aquarium salt in the water. I realize that some loaches don't like salt and can't take heat. Rest assured, my loach isn't one of them.

Anyway, back to the problem. The ten gallon tank heater doesn't seem to be able to heat to 80, only to 78. This morning, we noticed ich all over the older clown loach and on some of the tiger barbs. I have never had to deal with ich, but I do know that loaches don't take kindly to ich medicine. I raised the temperature (he's lived at 86 comfortably before) and put more salt in. I obviously want this taken care of before I transfer the fish into the larger tank. Our plan was to continue raising the temperature to about 86, add salt, and do daily water changes to remove the ich spores floating in the water.

A few questions:
1. Is this a good plan?
2. Should I think about buying medication and doing half doses? I've heard Rid Ich is good for loaches as long as you do a half dose twice a day. But I have no experience with it.
3. The ammonia in the 10 gallon is high due to the fish overload. (I know they say 10 gallons can handle 10 inches of fish, but I've never before had to do that. And I don't like it.) They were only suppose to be in this tiny tank for a day! Should I put ammonia reducer in, or will that make matters worse?
4. We put one of the decorations from the 10 gallon into the tank with my blue dempsey this morning. We took it out about 10 minutes later when we saw the ich. Should I treat the blue dempsey's tank as well? Do cichlids handle treatment better?
5. Will it be enough to clean the decor in the 10 gallon with boiling water and let it dry, or will I have to get rid of everything, including the tank?

Thank you very much. I'll update if anything changes.

PS - Water parameters: Nitrites and nitrates are both at 0. pH is 7.2 (always has been). Ammonia is at .5 (yes, it's high). The older clown loach is almost 3 inches, the baby clown loach is almost 2 inches, and each of the four tiger barbs is about 1/2 inch.

ageewax
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:40 am

Re: Never had ich before... Please help!

Post by ageewax » Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:42 pm

Update:

We bought Rid Ich today. We did a water change (putting less water in than we took out so that the splash from the filter could add more oxygen to the water), took the carbon out of the filter, added salt, and put a half dose of Rid Ich in the tank. The tank is at 83ºF, which doesn't seem to be a problem. We are just going to do everything we can to keep oxygenating the tank while it is that hot. The loaches have been in temps of 86ºF before, but the barbs haven't, so I didn't want to risk it. All of the fish seem to be tolerating it quite well. They also ate at their normal time and were very active. But I know that they could take a turn for the worse at any moment. I'll continue half dosing every day until 4 days after symptoms are gone.

I also did a water change and half dose in the dempsey's tank. She seems fine with it. It is just preventative because one of the decorations from the infected tank was in her tank as well. We did not raise the temperature of her tank.

I really hope they pull through!

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Never had ich before... Please help!

Post by Diana » Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:47 pm

How to treat for Ich and cycle the tank at the same time:

1) Daily water changes to keep the ammonia as low as possible and to vacuum up the Ich that falls to the bottom of the tank, and to remove organic matter (poop, fallen food...) Check the label on your dechlor. There may be instructions about dosing when you are dealing with high ammonia levels. The regular (single) dose usually handles just the ammonia from chloramine (about 1 ppm). Dose more to handle the higher ammonia. Do not use Amquel or Amquel Plus.

2) Feed half or less of the regular meals. The fish may not feel like eating, and every bit adds more ammonia to the water.

3) You can use salt and heat; a UV sterilizer can be included with the salt and heat method. Rid Ich is fine, too (no UV sterilizer with Rid Ich). Do some more research about combining them, though. Rid Ich Plus is labeled for fresh and marine fish. Adding a low level of salt (1 teaspoon per 10 gallons) can help stressed fish. I do not know if a higher dose of salt (stressful to the fish) and Rid Ich (stressful to the fish) are OK combined.
Heat can kill Ich, if you can get the tank over 86*F. This is especially hard if there is substrate. Remove the substrate. You can wrap the tank in a thick towel to try to conserve heat, allow the heater to warm it more. Less than 86* is OK, too. Does not kill Ich, but makes it go through its cycle faster so it more quickly reaches the stage that is vulnerable to meds. Keep up plenty of water movement for optimum aeration. Warmer water holds less oxygen.

4) If you can find a bacteria in a bottle that includes Nitrospira that is the right species of bacteria to remove ammonia and nitrite, but I am not sure how well it is going to handle the medication. Rid Ich label says it is OK with the bio filter, but I do not know about bacteria that you want to have growing and reproducing. I would add it, and hope.

5) What happened to the original filter? The media should have LOTS of beneficial bacteria on it.

6) If you have a new filter for the new tank do the fishless cycle while the fish are not in that tank. (Fishless cycle is a sticky)

7) Add fast growing plants to the tank. Just let them float. Yes, the salt may kill them. That is OK, as long as they are doing OK they are helping to remove ammonia. But remove the plants promptly if they die. Good light is important. I would get some Anacharis, duckweed, or Water Lettuce (if it is OK where you live)

8) Decorations removed from the hospital tank and added to a healthy tank can sure carry Ich. One phase of Ich lands on almost anything in the tank and starts to reproduce. The water surrounding the decoration (just that thin film) can hold Ich babies.
I would watch that tank like a hawk and be ready to add medication. Absolutely I would add a UV sterilizer ASAP. This will kill the single celled babies that are in the water looking for a host.

About the "1" per gallon" guide.
It is valid for fish not larger than 2", and even a plump, active 2" fish is a bit much.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

ageewax
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:40 am

Re: Never had ich before... Please help!

Post by ageewax » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:10 pm

Thanks for the post! We decided to preemptively dose the demsey's tank using half doses. Since she is the only one in there, we really don't mind doing the dosing and daily water changes for a while as a precautionary measure. She is handling the half dosing fine because she isn't scaleless.

The loaches are stressed, obviously. I'm lucky that my bigger loach prefers relatively higher temps anyways (around 80ºF) and salt. I'm just really worried the ich will prove his undoing. :-( I've seen him more stressed than this, but I don't want him to get worse!

We are just going to continue with daily water changes, half dosing, salt, heat, oxygen, and lots of love. It's only been two days!

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Never had ich before... Please help!

Post by Diana » Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:18 am

Just 2 days into treatment you are likely going to see more Ich before you see less.
The Ich that landed on the fish right before you started dosing were single cells, and it takes a few days for them to grow big enough to see.

Keep up with the water changes, and medications.

At the end of treatment, to remove Rid Ich from the tank:
Big water change, then add Amquel or Amquel Plus as the dechlor with the new water.
Add activated carbon to the filter.
24 hours later another big water change. (again, using Amquel or Amquel Plus) You could swap out the activated carbon, too.

Amquel and Amquel Plus lock up many of the dyes that are used as medications, including the active ingredients in Rid Ich.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

ageewax
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:40 am

Re: Never had ich before... Please help!

Post by ageewax » Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:03 pm

Thanks Diana!

5 days in, and everyone seems to still be in good spirits. The barbs have no more spots on them, but that just means, as you said, that more will come from the ones that were already attached to them before I started treatment. The clown loaches are still covered, but are eating well and relatively lively.

The good news is that their 55 gallon tank is ready for when they are better. I'm supposed to keep treating them until there are no visible signs of ich for at least 4 days. Once that happens, I can net them and acclimate them to the new tank! Slowly of course. I don't want stress to cause them to get sick again.

We have changed the dosing to a half dose every 12 hours. They seem to not be bothered by it. If they get stressed, we will go back to once every 24 hours. Still doing water changes once a day, heat (83º), and salt. I'm super optimistic!

No signs of ich on the dempsey. Yay!

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Never had ich before... Please help!

Post by Diana » Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:10 pm

That is sounding really good!

5 days in, I would not expect any new spots to show up, especially at that warm temperature. Ich grows fast enough to be seen in that time.

Good that the Dempsy is not showing anything!

Yes, 4 days beyond the day you saw the last spot would be the minimum time to maintain medication. Another couple of days would not hurt.

Dosing half strength every 12 hours seems to be easier on the more sensitive fish, so maintain that schedule.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

ageewax
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:40 am

Re: Never had ich before... Please help!

Post by ageewax » Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:54 pm

Ha. The fish gods hate me. I was waiting for my two clowns to come out of their hiding spot in the 10 gallon to check to see if they are spot free. While I was waiting, I looked at my fishies in the 55 gallon for amusement. Guess which fish now also have ich? Yup. Then in my distress and absent-mindedness, I accidentally used the same siphon for both the ich-filled 10 gallon tank and the ich-free dempsey tank. Yippee freaking skippy.

So while I'm very glad that my barbs are spot free and it looks like the two older clowns are as well, I'm pissed off that I have to dose the 55 gallon for two weeks as well. Now that I know how to do it without hurting the fish, I'm not worried. I'm just a little annoyed that I have to clean all three tanks every day for another two weeks or so.

Still doing heat, salt, and rich ich plus at a half dose twice a day, and once daily water changes of about 25%. On the bright side, that seems to be working well for me. Now I just can't put the 6 fish living in the 10 gallon into the big tank until it's clean. Bummer.

Again - the good news is that no one died yet!

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