Secondary Infection? Something Else?

This forum is for all health-related questions on Loaches and other freshwater fish.

Moderator: LoachForumModerators

Post Reply
MotherMajesty:)
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: SE Pennsylvania

Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by MotherMajesty:) » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:11 am

I have a botia kubotai that is looking very odd. It's almost totally grayed out and very swollen at the belly.

I've been treating for ich with heat (86F) for the last 2 weeks, but the issue with the fish began a few days before I started bringing the temp down again on Jan. 1. Could this be a sign of a secondary infection? I also have a hatchet fish that is 'pineconing' that has just recently developed. However, the hatchet has to be very close to the end of the 5-year life expectancy. I thought that maybe he just couldn't take the heat, but with the 2 fish both having issues, I'm unsure of how to proceed. Both the loach and the hatchet fish are eating and swimming normally.

I tried to attach a picture, but haven't figured it out yet... will work on that or I could by email.

I appreciate any advice. Thanks!
Maureen

User avatar
DainBramage1991
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Northern New England

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by DainBramage1991 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:27 pm

Dropsy comes to mind, though I hope that this isn't the case. Its classic telltale symptom is swelling with "pineconing", though you won't see protruding scales on loaches for obvious reasons. Unfortunately, it's quite devastating, especially to smaller fish.

There is plenty of good information on dropsy online, a quick web search should give you more information than you could ever want on the subject.

I hope you are able to bring your fish back to health.

MotherMajesty:)
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by MotherMajesty:) » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:15 pm

Thank you! I will look that up.

Unfortunately, the hatchet is failing fast. He's barely able to keep himself upright.

The b. kubotai seems ok, except for the swelling. It's eating and foraging and swimming normally still.

Now I have a 3" golden dojo that is sick. It's gills are very red. It's body is swollen down around the vent, and it's passing bubbles from the mouth/gills and the vent. It can swim only minimally. This happened just since yesterday, so it was a very quick onset. I have 3 golden dojos, and they were all fine until then. The remaining 2 see unaffected.

Also, I found a female cherry barb dead today, seemingly for no reason. The cherries are one of the fish in the tank that hadn't shown any signs of disease. There were no marks or anything unusual about the body. All the others seem fine.

So... I've got something nasty going on, obviously. :( I'll try my best!
Maureen

MotherMajesty:)
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by MotherMajesty:) » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:51 pm

Well... the info on dropsy was not encouraging, but I appreciate you pointing it out to me. Thank you for your help! It is welcomed and appreciated.

The hatchet is gone as of earlier this evening.

I expect the golden dojo to be next to pass. He was vertical in the water. I helped him onto a floating plant and shut down the current for time being. It's sad - I got my 3 golden dojos together when they were hardly more than little yellow worms with black dots for eyes. They were only about 1.5" long. My husband calls them "the snakes in the trees" as they like to drape themselves in the upper layers of the wisteria. I call them Doe, Joe, & Ziggy, though I have no idea who is who. :)

Someone on another forum suggested that it could be a parasite affecting the tank. I've begun treatment with API General Cure.

I've also heard that bacteria might be the cause. Is there a particular bacterial treatment that would work best? I looked into Maracyn & Maracyn 2, but it would take a LOT of it to treat my tank. API has specific antibiotics (Tetracycline, Triple Sulpha, Erythromycin (sp?)) that are more targeted & require less volume of medicine.

Any advice is appreciated. Thank you!
Maureen

User avatar
DainBramage1991
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:56 pm
Location: Northern New England

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by DainBramage1991 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:48 pm

Sorry to hear about your hatchet. I hope that you are able to save your other fish. It's hard to lose the fish we love, particularly the ones we've given names to.

Dropsy is an ugly thing, it really plays havoc with any poor fish that gets it. I recently had to euthanize a platy that was suffering severely from it.

Be careful with the medications. Avoid anything with copper, as loaches generally won't tolerate it, though this shouldn't be an issue with antibiotics. I'm afraid that I can't offer much help as far as antibiotic meds/brands go, as I have very little experience with them. However, while treating with them, be sure to keep a very close eye on your tank's ammonia and nitrite levels, as they will likely kill your nitrifying bacteria colony.

Good luck, I truly hope that you are successful at knocking out whatever illness is harming your fish.

MotherMajesty:)
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by MotherMajesty:) » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:46 pm

Thank you for kind words and encouragement. It's a frustrating experiment trying to figure out what's wrong. I just hope I stumble across something that works before I lose more fish. The tank's had its 2nd dose of General Cure. I'll try antibiotics next if there's no improvement from the General Cure.

Last night the sick dojo looked so bad that I put him in a net with a bit of floating plant and hung it in the tank. I didn't want him sinking to the bottom and getting picked on - or worse. I expected he'd be dead by morning. When I checked this morning, he looked awful. I thought he was dead until I tried to take him out and he started moving, though weakly. So I got one of those breeder next boxes and put him and his plant in it so he'll have more room. I haven't noticed any improvement, but he's still alive, so I'm cautiously hopeful. I will let you know if I discover anything re: treatment.
Maureen

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by Diana » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:11 pm

Most fish bacterial infections are from Gram negative bacteria, so I would start there. More often the Gram positive organisms attack when the fish are already weakened by something else, so I would not rule that out, though.
Erythromycin IS Maracyn, same thing. More effective on Gram positive organisms.
Combining Maracyn and Maracyn II makes a combination of Gram negative and Gram positive action.

One way to treat is to move the affected fish to a hospital tank.
That way you can spend less $ on meds, and customize the set up so you can monitor the fish, and give them optimum conditions to heal. For example, salt (NaCl) is a good thing to add for stress. As little as 1 teaspoon per gallon can help. Have you been treating the Ich with salt? That is a much larger dose.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

MotherMajesty:)
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by MotherMajesty:) » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:07 pm

Hi Diana,

Thank you for all the information! It's much more science than I knew about the processes.

I've completed the API Quick Cure treatment and have started API Triple Sulfa. I've been unable to discover if it treats gram negative or gram positive infections. This is what API's website says about the Triple Sulfa:
A special formula of three sulfa medications to effectively treat bacterial infections such as hemorrhagic septicemia (blood streaks in fins and body and localized swelling), bacterial gill disease, fin & tail rot, cotton mouth disease, body slime and eye cloud for both fresh and saltwater fish. This medication will not harm the biological filter and will not color aquarium water.

I hope I've chosen correctly. If not, I will try something else. I've seen that API has a couple natural products (PimaFix and MelaFix) that can be used in concurrently to treat "internal and external bacterial infections" according to the website. Might you know anything regarding those meds as treatments? I like the 'natural' hook, but I also know that homeopathic stuff is not always as effective as one would wish.

The Ich seems to have been cured by the 2-week heat treatment. At least, I'm not seeing evidence of it among the other problems I'm having. I didn't use salt when I treated for ich as I was concerned about how well the loaches would tolerate it. I have Sinibotia pulchra, B. kubotai, black khulis, horse-faced loaches, and now 2 golden dojo loaches. I've heard that some loaches can tolerate a bit of salt, but other types (like Clown loaches) are highly sensitive to it.

I appreciate your advice and I welcome the input from Loaches Online! So many other forums are silly by comparison - more like Facebook than an informational forum. The warm & fuzzy stuff is nice, but there are plenty of outlets for that type of communication. When I'm looking for advice, I really don't care what your favorite TV show is. ;)

Thanks for all the help! Hopefully I'll someday be able to report a successful outcome to my tank problems.
Maureen

Diana
Posts: 4675
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:35 am
Location: Near San Franciso

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by Diana » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:30 am

I have used Triple Sulfa for a few bacterial issues, and have had pretty good results.

I agree about the other silly sites that are more concerned with the social aspects of being on line.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!

MotherMajesty:)
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:01 pm
Location: SE Pennsylvania

Re: Secondary Infection? Something Else?

Post by MotherMajesty:) » Fri Jan 25, 2013 8:07 pm

I'm cautiously optomistic, but it seems the worst has passed with disease in my tank. IDK what particularly worked, or if it was just happenstance, but I can live with it. :)

What's odd, though is the B. kubotai that was my initial concern is still grayed out and swollen in the abdomen. 'She' seems to be otherwise fine - being active, and eating and swimming normally. I've read they don't breed in captivity, so I'm totally clueless. I'll have to keep an eye on the situation.

Thank you all! I appreciate this forum providing a place to get the benefit of the experience and wisdom of the group.
Maureen

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests