Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

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Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby Ester » Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:26 pm

Hi everyone,

I'm going through my first experience of an ich outbreak. :(

I've raised my temperature to 86F over the course of a couple days, and spent money on a large airstone. I also purchased the ich medicine stated in the thread title. I believe it to be very new, as there is not a lot of info or reviews found on the web. I have a few questions regarding ich treatment for a community tank, specifically w/ 5 clown loaches.

Will an airstone put on the far left side of the tank where my canister filter stuff is good enough to oxygenate the entire tank?

Is there a strong chance that 86F along w/ frequent gravel vacs be good enough to clear ich?

Most importantly, has anyone used this herbal ich treatment? If not, something similar?

I will update in the future of how the remedy worked. Wish me luck homies!

-Stephen
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Re: Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby mikev » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:30 am

Is there a strong chance that 86F along w/ frequent gravel vacs be good enough to clear ich?


Always there is a chance. There is also a chance that raising temperature to 86F will simply speed up the ich development cycle and wipe out the fish much faster.

As for your herbal med: previous attempts in this direction, like the Ick Attack product from about ten years ago, failed.

Based on the description, Ick Attack looked more promising than Nat Geo (there was a reason to think it might work -- it just did not, with Nat Geo I see no reasons to think so). Yes, I did use Ick Attack in the past *to supplement* real medications when dealing with a highly resistant ich strain, and it had a certain use in that role.
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Re: Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby Diana » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:44 pm

There is a heat resistant form of Ich.
It is not very common (yet) so I think the vacuuming and elevated temperature will help a lot.

The bubbler will help...
if...

The goal of increasing the aeration of the tank is to increase the circulation, and the rippling at the surface.
If the bubbler is working with the filter to enhance the flow from the filter, and not fight against it, then it will help. I have no idea if the effect will be more local or all over the tank.
I would not trust a bubbler at the far end in my 5' or 6' tanks.
I would REALLY test it in the 4' tanks, but at one end... not the middle... I don't know.
In smaller tanks it will probably do a good job.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

Happy fish keeping!
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Re: Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby Ester » Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:37 am

I still have the air stone on the left side of the tank where the filter is. The agitated surface doesn't quite reach the far right side of the tank, but I believe the tank is properly oxygenated...

It's been one week since I slowly raised the temperature to 86F, and Wednesday I completed the third and final dosage of the Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief.

All fish are eating, swimming, breathing fine. The ich has not left yet though, as a couple of my clown loaches are still rubbing off objects. One loach has about 7 white spots, another has about 2.

Today after work, I'm going to do a second gravel vac in...about 5 days I think.

I know it takes time to see ich leave a tank. Hopefully by next week I see improvements, as that will be the second week with raised temperatures.

I'm thinking I should move their castle that the five of them hide in, as the gravel vacs have not reached that area. I'll have to lure them all out though, as I'm scared to move it with even one hanging out in there.

Should I continue treatment with the herbal medicine? It calls for 3 total dosages, every other day. I have already done this. I believe the tank wasn't up to 86F during the first dosage, so maybe that first one was ineffective.
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Re: Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby mikev » Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:53 pm

Should I continue treatment with the herbal medicine?


Well, if you have even a little ich in the tank there is a strong potential for explosion at any time which would result in the wipeout of your fish. There is of course also a potential for Ich to be eventually eliminated, or -- like I saw happening with Ick Attack years ago -- a potential for a long term low-level disease continuing (Ich is suppressed but not eliminated).

If your interest is in studying the efficiency of the herbal thing, you should continue. If your interest in eliminating the disease and not losing the fish, you should treat the tank with real medications.

Keep in mind also that in addition to the parasites you see on the fish (which are not too damaging!) there are also ones that sit in the gills and these are damaging all right.
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Re: Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby Diana » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:25 am

Remove the castle and anything else that prevents you from vacuuming the floor of the tank. The Loaches hide in there, the Ich drops off, then reproduces, and these babies do not have far to go to find a host.

Keep up the medication. They are lying when they say a 3-day treatment is enough. Ich can stay inside the host's skin for longer than 3 days, and these meds ONLY kill the babies.
When the Ich that is on the fish falls off to reproduce, there MUST be meds in the water to kill them.

To stop the medication too soon means another round of infestation.
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.

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Re: Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby mikev » Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:36 pm

Not quite. Some of the meds do kill ich in all stages, these include quinine and flubendazole. Already mentioned Ick Attack used a natural form of quinine, making gravel cleaning unnecessary. And pure quinine is quite capable of eliminating Ich in 4 days or less with a single treatment at low temperatures in nearly all cases (I prefer to deal with Ich at the lowest possible temperature for safety). The reason why Ick Attack usually failed was simply too low a concentration of the med, this is likely the case with the Nat Geo thing too. And while overdosing say 4 times would probably do the trick, we do not have any information on safety. Gravel cleaning does not help significantly (and regardless, one should be treating for Ick and most other diseases in a clean tank with no substrate).

Incidentally this situation is reminiscent of the malaria treatment in humans (also a protozoan disease, so a valid human analog!) ... before quinine discovery people used to chew bark of certain trees to alleviate the disease... the bark had that same natural form of quinine, but again not in sufficient dosages for cure, only for control!
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Re: Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby Ester » Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:55 am

I did a nice gravel vac and rearranged the tank a bit. The fish seem to enjoy the new layout. It's been about 9 days into the heightened temperature of 86F. I plan to extend the treatment and do a 4th dosage today after work. All fish are eating and swimming fine. There is still ich on the loaches. Not all of them, maybe 2-3 of the 5.

How much longer should I extend the heat and Nat Geo treatment until looking for other remedies?
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Re: Ich: Treating Tank w/ Nat Geo Herbal Ich Relief

Postby Ester » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:02 am

Update:

I have one dosage left in the bottle, if that, for a total of 5ish dosages. A couple days ago I raised the temp from 86F to 88.5F.

Could this help?
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