Possibly Ich

[Ippo456]

I bought Jungle Ick Guard.
Before adding the Ick Guard, I did a 15% water change.
I added the recommended dosage & removed the carbon filter, but still have the filter running to increase aeration as suggested.
I turned off the light & see how it is tomorrow.
If Ick persists, I'm going to have to do a 25% water change & add more meds.
Hey MikeV, where in NY are you?
I might be able to suggest you some LFS.

[mikev]

Sounds good.

"Recommended dosage" == Full OR Half?

At this stage of the game, doing full might not be such a bad idea.

RAISE THE TEMP.

Good luck.

[Ippo456]

I added full recommended dosage as well as raised the temp to 84-86 degrees.
I'll see how it's going to be tomorrow

Uh oh ..
I saw 2 of the loaches hanging out on top of the heater.
One of them, his head was sticking out of the water.
I'm not sure why he was doing this .. whether it was too hot for him or he needed air.
But I nudged him so that he went back into the water.
Is swimming vertically normal for loaches?
Mine keep hanging around in the corners of the tank & swim vertically.

For now, I'm going to turn down the heater by a little to 82 degrees.

[mikev]

I added full recommended dosage as well as raised the temp to 84-86 degrees.
I'll see how it's going to be tomorrow

Don't expect to see major overnight changes. Ich Guard as most meds does nothing to the bugs that are anchored on the fish, only kills the ones in the water. Hopefully, you should see some improvements in 2-3 days.

Since you went with full dosage, do watch the loaches for stress signs and do not add any more tomorrow; while m.green dissipates, you should have enough for 2 days action there.

[mikev]

Just saw you adding this:

Uh oh ..
I saw 2 of the loaches hanging out on top of the heater.

Your loach probably has lots of ich in his gills and has a trouble breathing.

The best way is to increase the airation to the max, this is done by lowering the water level. If you have an extra air stone, this will help too.

IMO, don't play with temperature, leave it at 86F.

Swimming vertically and hiding behind the heater as shown is actually pretty normal.

--

Check your PM on the other question.

[Ippo456]

MikeV, thanks for the quick reply.
I really do appreciate your help.
I was thinking that way too.
I did increase aeration by lowering water level so that the water can create a splash when coming out of the filter.
I have been keeping a close eye on them & will continue to do so.
I'll add more meds, like you said, on Friday if I don't see any improvements.

[mikev]

MikeV, thanks for the quick reply.
I really do appreciate your help.

Very welcome.

I'll add more meds, like you said, on Friday if I don't see any improvements.

Uggh,...I did not say this. You are already overdosing (for loaches), don't add any more tomorrow, give the meds some time to work.

If you want a little more kick, add quinine ("Ich Attack"). This is a very different Ich med which can be used at the same time.

[Ippo456]

MikeV, thanks for the quick reply.
I really do appreciate your help.

Very welcome.

I'll add more meds, like you said, on Friday if I don't see any improvements.

Uggh,...I did not say this. You are already overdosing (for loaches), don't add any more tomorrow, give the meds some time to work.

If you want a little more kick, add quinine ("Ich Attack"). This is a very different Ich med which can be used at the same time.

That's what I meant.
I won't add anymore tomorrow, but I'll see how they are on Friday.
Too bad I can't find any of the meds that LOL members have recommended me.
I read up on Ich Attack & sounds like a suitable med.

[mikev]

DO NOT add any other meds that are based on Malachite Green.

Ich Guard is as good as any. Rid-Ich, Super-Ick-Cure etc are all based on Malachite Green. If you use one more, you will really overdose.

Ich Attack, otoh, is really different. It is not all that powerful by itself, but it does add a bit of extra power to a Mal.Green-based med.

[Ippo456]

White spots are more & more visible today.
I'm leaving them alone for today & will try to look for Ich Attack or similar meds.
It seems that they have found a new sleeping place - the nook between the top suction cup holder of the heater & the water surface (see previous picture).
They would try to balance their bodies across, one on top of the other, on the suction cup holder.
Funny creatures .. 2 fit nicely, but a 3rd one always try to squeeze in.
*sigh* these guys are too cute & they have to get better!

I managed to find Ich Attack & added a tiny bit more than the recommended dosage.
Will see if white spots are still visible tomorrow.
Will definitely do a 25% water change tomorrow & add some more Jungle Ick Guard (even if white spots are gone, I'm supposed to still treat water with meds).

[Ippo456]

I'm very very upset.
2 clowns have passed away & I'm not sure whether it's due to the negative reactions to the meds (Ich Attack & Ick Guard) or the severity of the disease, or both.
Earlier today I thought they were doing better, but I thought wrong.
I've been doing 30-40% water changes daily, followed by meds (Ich Attack & Ick Guard).
The thing is .. the other fish (coryfish, hatchetfish, gupps, & white clouds) seem to have no visible signs of Ich (they've never had any visible symptoms) & it's only the clowns who seem to be infected by Ich.
I'm guessing it's because they have no scales & thus more prone to diseases.

Any other suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks in advance.

[mikev]

Very sorry to hear this, but this was not unexpected. Your pictures at the beginning of the thread show an advanced case of the disease. The dots you see on the fins and tails are not so important, but similar dots you cannot see in the gills are, and meds take time.

If/when you encounter Ich again, try to treat at the first symptomes, then the success is nearly certain.

Now, clowns seem to be more prone to ich than other fish, and more than other loaches. This is likely not connected to being scaless, but rather to being stressed much easier. Clowns are certainly good ich indicators, if you see no signs of ich on the clowns, probably the rest of the fish is also clean.

30%-40% changes daily seems to be too much, see what the med label says.

Continue treating until you have no symptoms, and then another 5 days to make sure. Massive water changes are not needed during these last 5 days, in fact it is sufficient to make sure that the med remains in the tank.

[Ippo456]

Thanks.
It seems that Ich is slowly disappearing.
Of course I'll still be treating the fish even after I see no visible symptoms of Ich for a precaution.
I'll cut down on the water changes to 25% (as recommended by the meds).

[mikev]

Very welcome.

One way to handle it is after three days of no symptoms, simply stop WC for a week. The residual med will handle the remaining bugs and slowly weaken.

When you get more loaches, watch them very carefully for Ich signs so you can catch the disease early. In early stages, Ich is nearly always beatable, but if you let the disease progress, even working meds do not have enough time to beat the disease.

One more thing: with most fish the correct approach to an advanced ich is an immediate saltwater bath, this is one of few things that kills the parasite on the fish. However, clowns are an exception: you may stress them to death too easily, this is why I did not suggest this.


Good luck, and report how it goes.

[Ippo456]

I'm really frustrated!
Just as I thought that the Ich was gone, one loach still had a little white specks