Clown Loach getting dangerously thin

[Soup]

Hi all,

Apologies if this is covered elsewhere in the forum/FAQ but I am really desperate for some info. I have had a quick read but cannot find what I am after.

Basically I have a 60ltr tank that I had introduced two Clown Loaches to (also contained a sucker fish, x2 tetras, x2 Guppy's), that have since started losing weight. One of them was originally small, but has since wasted away to the point he is really gaunt and bony. We tried moving him out of the tank into a smaller one as we feared our sucker fish (who has grown HUGE) was stealing their food or bullying them. This didn't seem to work (his movement went down to nothing) so we bought a new tank to put the sucker fish in and put the small Loach back into the original tank. That was two days ago and he seems a bit more active but I want him back to full health. Currently he doesn't move much but sits vertical close to the top of the water line in the corner of the tank, as does the other larger Loach. They do have some fin damage, yet we have never observed them ever attacking or being attacked. We are hoping the suckerfish has been bullying and in removing him they may recover.
We drop both pellets and flake food in 3 times a day (small amounts) however they both don't seem to react at all.

We spoke to the pet store about it and he simply advised to 'flush it down the loo', however we really want to try and bring it back to life - fatten it up. We have tried bloodworms, however again they don't seem interested, we might try (as per an article on this site) vegetables and other food suggested.

Can anyone suggest something immediate?

TIA!

[Soup]

Ok, an update - I tried adding some frozen chopped prawn strategically placed nearby and he went ape over it!!!!.....then he scuttled off to hide

I hope he has, as per some info on this site, taken some away into the log to feed in private

[helen nightingale]

thats great you found he likes prawns. its terrible you were told to flush him down the loo

does the fish look anything like this?:

http://www.geocities.com/pktechlizard/skinny.htm

does the sucker fish look like the chinese algae eater, at the bottomm of the page here:

http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

[Soup]

does the fish look anything like this?:

http://www.geocities.com/pktechlizard/skinny.htm

Yes!!! The very top picture is exactly it (I feel soo bad every time I see him), I have written a few notes down from this site (found some more posts regarding 'skinny disease' and will try a few things out)

does the sucker fish look like the chinese algae eater, at the bottomm of the page here:

http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

No, but I believe it is called a Gold Algea Eater (we have always nick named him sucker fish lol):
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod ... pcatid=938

I am a bit worried at the moment as they are both in each corner of the aquiruim vertically with there noses poking out as if gasping for air?

[helen nightingale]

do you have much water movement across the surface of the water? if they are panting at the surface, try dropping the water level a bit, so there is splashing, that will get more oxygen in to the water for them

make sure your water is clean. ammonia and nitrate will not help the fishes breathing, and should both measure 0. if stating this is obvious to you, i am really sorry. i just wanted to check, as it sounds like your LFS have given you rubbish advice re flushing down the toilet, id rather risk coming across rude than assuming you know.

[Auntsally]

Hi Sorry about your poor clown loaches. Their ailments still baffle me but you mention golden loach. I inherited two about 3inch. long with a second hand tank and they attacked my rasbora scissortails, killing three of them before I caught one in the act! They should be sold with a fishy health warning. Could they be stressing the clowns? Just a thought.

[shari2]

soup, where are you located? available meds are pretty much location dependent.

good call on removing the algae eater. he's likely harassing the clowns and could be responsible for the fin problems, as well as stressing them to the point where they don't eat.

also, is your clown very sunken behind the head? Once it reaches that stage it is very hard to bring them back...sorry.

Do you have a quarantine tank available?
If so, remove the clowns to there and I'd treat them concurrently (both of them) with Levamisole and a good broad spectrum antibiotic (one that covers both gram negative and gram positive bacteria, like Kanamycin).

'Skinny disease' isn't really a disease, per se, but a term used to describe symptoms that can be caused by a multitude of factors. In clowns, it's often either parasites (they are often wild caught fish that come in loaded with a bunch of issues) or bacterial issues that in the wild their immune systems handle, or both. Stressed fish have lowered immunity and issues that they can normally fight off will overtake them.

sorry i didn't get to you on this sooner. i've been rather sporadic on the forums lately...

[Soup]

Hi, apologies about replying (was away) so late.
Unfortunately the bigger Loache of the two passed away which was a really big shock! We found him the day before with part of his rear tail fin missing, then found him the following morning floating with what looked like a thin film of a silk coat all over him (layer of skin?).
The skinny Loach still is kicking, but still not eating as much as we would like him too. We had, in the days leading up to the bigger of the two passing away, installed one of those bubble pipes to oxygenate the water more which going by both of the Loaches actions seems to have done the trick as they are more active around the tank as opposed to 'gasping for air'.
Also we had used Pimafix (antefungal fish remedy) following the instructions to a tee, we also are using Stress Zyme (Biological filtration booster).
Doing an Ammonia check came up with 0, doing a PH test came up with 7.0/7.5 (am assuming this is good as the instructions mention "at least 5dkh" and I beieve anything less than 7 is acidic).
Have yet to do an Ammonia test (will do that next), I did try and find some of the chemicals suggested in other posts (including the variants of antibiotics), however I cant seem to find any here (Australia) and the fish shops I have been too arnt aware of them - may have to do an over the Internet order me thinks. Will look for Levamisole and Kanamycin.

[Auntsally]

Sorry your loach died in the end, I do hope the other fella pulls through. It is sad to lose them, especially after all the effort you have made to help them.
Sorry I cannot help practically as I am still learning with these lovely fish myself but I am sure one of the experts will be on soon.

[shari2]

Sorry you lost your larger loach, soup.

For Aussie vet supplies (including antibiotics) you can have a look here for levamisole preparation:
http://vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php ... 393&page=1
For use and dosage in your fish tank see here:
http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/l ... chloride-1

and here for antibiotic possibilities:
http://vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php ... medium=cpc
This med contains Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride. Usage for fish described below from National Fish Pharmaceuticals®

"Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride

USE: Gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria. Marine ulcer disease, cold water disease, bacterial hemmorrhagic septicemia and mouth fungus.

DOSAGE: 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each treatment. Treat for 10 days. 250 grams (treats 4000 gal.) Or, if mixed into feed, 2 teaspoons per pound of Koi pellets. Feed for 14 - 21 days.

If your pH is 8.0 or above, it is suggested to use this medication in the feed."

Hope this helps.

[Soup]

Sorry you lost your larger loach, soup.

For Aussie vet supplies (including antibiotics) you can have a look here for levamisole preparation:
http://vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php ... 393&page=1
For use and dosage in your fish tank see here:
http://www.loaches.com/Members/shari2/l ... chloride-1

and here for antibiotic possibilities:
http://vetnpetdirect.com.au/product.php ... medium=cpc
This med contains Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride. Usage for fish described below from National Fish Pharmaceuticals®

"Oxytetracycline Hydrochloride

USE: Gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria. Marine ulcer disease, cold water disease, bacterial hemmorrhagic septicemia and mouth fungus.

DOSAGE: 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons every 24 hours with a 25% water change before each treatment. Treat for 10 days. 250 grams (treats 4000 gal.) Or, if mixed into feed, 2 teaspoons per pound of Koi pellets. Feed for 14 - 21 days.

If your pH is 8.0 or above, it is suggested to use this medication in the feed."

Hope this helps.

Cheers Shari2, will look at getting some stuff from them.
Thanks!