The purpose of this post is to assist new clown owners in avoiding common mistakes. As you will see below, I made a number of them (some deliberately); the mistakes are shown in red.
General situation: I have 4 mostly problem-free clowns in a 65g tank; the largest is about 3.5"; three of them went through a mild Ich experience; the last did not. I've been shopping for the 5th clown for about six months, hoping to find the right one. I did not intend to buy any more fish *right now* and I don't have a quarantine tank available at the moment...well, I do, but it is used for something else. Obviously, a sane person will have it available at all times.
Thursday, Feb 9. I found him, finally. Unfortunately, it is a cold day and a bad Ich outbreak is certain if I'm to carry the fish bag through the subway. The store is about to close, no time to call a car, so I will have to come back. The only thing I can do right away is to examine all the clowns (about 30 of them, packed into a 20g) for the signs of Ich or parasite infections -- all seem to be clean.
Friday, Feb 10. The most miserable day. I cannot make it to the store.
Saturday, Feb 11. Temp is upped to 79F, 1/4 dosage of salt is added to the water, and 1/3 dosage of Ich Guard. This will take care of small amount of Ich that may come with the Clown. Checking water params once again: 0/0/5/6.5/8. Checking the fish in the tank -- all are fine. Driving to the Store.
The clown is still there; apparently nobody noticed. He is clearly a loner, gray instead of black, and less active then the rest.A smart person will never buy this one.. On the plus side, he is pretty fat.
I ask the salesman to net him (A mistake since I could have netted him myself better..and they allow me to net what I like myself...but I know the guy and he is actually far more experienced than me.). The salesman says something about me always buying freaks, the clown gets offended and bites the salesman, the salesman curses, clown gets dropped on the floor, and placed back into the net. Now I realize that I did not look at the net. The net is exactly wrong, and both spines get stuck in it. After a minute, the spines are released (the salesman did this part well), the clown goes into the bag, apparently undamaged.
I fall into the trap of store volume discounts and allow my daughter to choose another clown. This is when I realize that some of the clowns have Ich and far more than just a couple of dots. A smart person would turn around and go home now. I reject the first two clowns she chooses (too thin; and too big -- I don't want to displace my Alpha), the third is ok; and we head home with two new clowns.
At home, we notice that the bag contains some slime --- maybe from the clowns, maybe dirt from the store. In all cases, we don't want this in the tank and we want Ich even less.
Temp is raised to 82F, clowns are in the bag inside the tank.
Two hours of very slow acclimation: water from the bag gets thrown out, I use two separate caps for the tank water and the dirty water. Water changed several more times after the bag contains almost entirely my water -- this way more of the parasite gets washed away.
Now, the entire water contents of the bag gets thrown out. I cannot use the net since there may be spine damage to the important clown, so I simply fully drain the bag into the bucket and once the water is fully gone, release them into the tank. A smart person would have given them a short salt bath at this point, to kill off more of the parasite, but I feel that he got stressed more than enough.
The first clown instantly located the driftwood cave and dissappears in it. No pictures today. The second clown runs around the driftwood for a few hours, performing a nice dance and obviously looking for some company.
Temp goes to 84F two hours later.
Sunday, Feb 12 No signs of Ich, no signs of the shy clown -- almost. I can only observe parts of him through three holes in the driftwood.. seems to be alive.
Monday, Feb 13 Morning. He would now stick out his head a bit and eat the food that drifts close to his mouth. I have to move very slowly, otherwise he dives back in for an hour.
Monday, Feb 13 11am: power out (big snow melting...). Power restored only in six hours... I managed to get it in three, but still, the temp dropped. A smart person should own a generator...
Monday, Feb 13 7pm: Ich dot on the 2nd clown. Possibly due to the powerout, not totally unexpected. Ich Guard goes to 1/2 dosage, temp to 86F, water level is lowered to provide the 3rd source of air (in addition to two airstones).
Tuesday, Feb 14 Second powerout, 2 hours, but this time I'm ready for it.--no temp drops. Ich dot is gone.
Wednesday, Feb 15 No more ich, the main problem seems to be that the 1st clown is still hiding all the time, but this is not something I can fix...
Thursday, Feb 16 Both clowns explore the tank together, both hide if I come close to the tank. No Ich.
Dropped by the store again. About ten clowns left, quite obviously they did not sell the rest, massive ich infections in several tanks and dead fish all around. I guess I did save my-new-favorite-clown.
Friday, Feb 17 First more or less successul feeding. They still did figure out that the smart way to feed is to go up when the food is dropped...but enough drifted to the bottom. No Ich. Temp -> 82F. I am not totally out of trouble yet, but I don't see much point in torturing the fish with 86F after 4 days without symthomes.
Saturday, Feb 18 New pattern emerges: Loach #2 is out most of the time and seems to be doing fine, except for being lonely. Loach #1 is hiding and would not come out except for feeding; even then he rushes back the moment the food is gone. During one of the feedings, Loach #1 attacks a small yoyo and chases a barb --- either he is still very nervous, or has a uniquely bad personality.
Sunday, Feb 19, EveningThe two fight. This is the most intense loach fight I've seen so far, in addition to locking the barbels and pushing, they are actually trying to bite each other. Loach #2 is the clear initiator; #1 tries to dive into the hiding cave all the time, #2 follows him and they both come out to fight...several times over. This goes on for about 30 minutes; I don't break the fight, it would not help.
Next Restore the tank to normal temp, water changes to get rid of the med. Make sure they feed normally. Give them anti-parasite meds (UltraCarePX for a week). Then move them to the bigger tank where they can meet the other four.
The moral of the story: Be extra careful. Be prepared for things going wrong. Pay attention to small things. And don't do stupid things because of a uniquely attractive fish.---at least unless you have a proven strategy for Ich warfare. And, as for Ich, wage a preventive war --- start treating before it has a chance. Cide it before it cides your fish.
My clown buying experience
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My clown buying experience
Last edited by mikev on Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks!Shari wrote:Interesting story...how bad is it now? everything cleared up?
Hopefully will be of use to someone new.
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Ich I think is gone, but I'll check every few hours over the weekend.
The 1st one seems to be fine, except for the psychological problems (when I approach the tank with the four old ones, they show up to greet and beg; when I approach the tank with the new ones, they hide.) The other does have a little problem noticed only today: one of the fins is slightly shredded. Almost certainly not ich or my water (the damage looks old). I'll watch him for a few days, unsure if Melafix is warranted.
If I get a decent photo of the main character I'll post it; otherwise it may be unclear why I risked a whole tank over him.
---
Oh, and the most unhappy fish are the barbs in the tank. Their favorite entertainment was to swim through this cave, now they cannot get through. Right now there are two barbs waiting at the entrance....
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Spankenstyne
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OK, let me add part 1 of the story...how it all started.
My first attempt with clowns was a total failure, like we see on the other threads. Ich within three days, attempts to treat with the med recommended by a chain pet store where I bought the fish, four dead clowns and six dead tetras.
As I learned a bit later, what happened was that the manufacturer switched the formula, and made it more toxic for loaches and less toxic for ich. The effect was that the four clowns were killed by the med quickly, while ich spread to tetras who lasted a couple more days. The only survivor of the tank was a baby common pleco.... who is now the biggest fish around here and still slowly growing.
On the 2nd round, I was still dumb enough to wait for the ich symptomes to show, but once they did, I went through all the fish stores in the area (there are many in New York) trying to find someone who actually knew his business. It turned out that there was actually a "clown store" -- a store where there were lots of large and obviously healthy and well-treated clowns, and lots of sick cheap fish in dirty tanks. A uniquely pragmatic place, in a way.... They sold me a ten-year supply of Ich Guard
(If you want a small package, come next month...big smile)
but I was much better informed, and within a week I was Ich-free without any losses.
Three of those four are still here...one died months later from a strange recurring disease we could not figure out.
As for the clown place....I never bought from them... their clowns have one problem: they all are a strange variation, probably a (sub-)species, and I did not feel like experimenting mixing them with mine (and the different body shape made them less attractive....).
My first attempt with clowns was a total failure, like we see on the other threads. Ich within three days, attempts to treat with the med recommended by a chain pet store where I bought the fish, four dead clowns and six dead tetras.
As I learned a bit later, what happened was that the manufacturer switched the formula, and made it more toxic for loaches and less toxic for ich. The effect was that the four clowns were killed by the med quickly, while ich spread to tetras who lasted a couple more days. The only survivor of the tank was a baby common pleco.... who is now the biggest fish around here and still slowly growing.
On the 2nd round, I was still dumb enough to wait for the ich symptomes to show, but once they did, I went through all the fish stores in the area (there are many in New York) trying to find someone who actually knew his business. It turned out that there was actually a "clown store" -- a store where there were lots of large and obviously healthy and well-treated clowns, and lots of sick cheap fish in dirty tanks. A uniquely pragmatic place, in a way.... They sold me a ten-year supply of Ich Guard
(If you want a small package, come next month...big smile)
but I was much better informed, and within a week I was Ich-free without any losses.
Three of those four are still here...one died months later from a strange recurring disease we could not figure out.
As for the clown place....I never bought from them... their clowns have one problem: they all are a strange variation, probably a (sub-)species, and I did not feel like experimenting mixing them with mine (and the different body shape made them less attractive....).
Had the same problem out here. I got my one little guy from one store. He was the only one in the tank and looked healthy. I went over to another store to see if I could find a buddy for him and the entire tank had ich problems. I passed and waited about a month. I went back then and picked out one healthy looking one.
BTW, should you ever see any reg kuhlis in any of the NYC stores please let me know. I'll come in and get them.
BTW, should you ever see any reg kuhlis in any of the NYC stores please let me know. I'll come in and get them.
You should have asked a week ago....Right now I don't know of any, but the place where I usually buy probably will order another hundred in a couple of weeks.Wendie wrote: BTW, should you ever see any reg kuhlis in any of the NYC stores please let me know. I'll come in and get them.
Loachwise, they have baby yoyos now, and possibly have a few schisturas and gastros left.
Saltwater dips
I am not a fan of saltwater dips, particularly for loaches. These fish tend to be easily stressed by even minor changes in water conditions, even under normal circumstances. Saltwater dips can quickly cause osmotic shock and I personally would never subject any of my loaches to such stress willingly. Especially one that's been stressed by shipping, spending time in the dealer's tank and then the trip home.
When buying a new loach skip the dipping and put them into a fully cycled quarantine tank for a few weeks where you can treat any ailments with the proper medication (for ich I highly recommend ParaGuard and for chronic wasting syndrome a combo of Maracyn and Maracyn 2). The key to success with loaches is to never do anything too drastic. Do things in small increments, learn to read what your fish are telling you with their behavior and be patient. You will be rewarded with fish that survive quarantine and go on to live long healthy lives.
When buying a new loach skip the dipping and put them into a fully cycled quarantine tank for a few weeks where you can treat any ailments with the proper medication (for ich I highly recommend ParaGuard and for chronic wasting syndrome a combo of Maracyn and Maracyn 2). The key to success with loaches is to never do anything too drastic. Do things in small increments, learn to read what your fish are telling you with their behavior and be patient. You will be rewarded with fish that survive quarantine and go on to live long healthy lives.
Last edited by cybermeez on Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't have the exact address handy (only know how to get there, should be in the tel directory.Wendie wrote:What's the name of the place and where are they located.
They DON'T have khulis right now. I'm going to keep track of this (I have way too many already but still want more, and in a batch of a hundred it is always possible to find something really nice) and let you know. If you want the other things I mentioned it makes sense to hurry up (call first to check of course).
No, but:Have you noticed any problems with the kuhlis that they get in?
The problem with khulis is that you usually don't notice problems until they die. 30% dieout on new khulis is common. But if you had one for a week, your worries are over.
A large bag of water and keep the car warm.It's a 6 hour RT for me but if I can get some nice ones it might be worth it. Hopefully it won't stress them out too much traveling.
Last edited by mikev on Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Saltwater dips
Agree; yours is a nice explanation.cybermeez wrote:I am not a fan of saltwater dips, particularly for loaches.
One situation where this seems to help is if the fish is seriously covered with ich (like on the Xirxes thread), and even then, only if you are taking care of the ich in the tank.
I was considering a dip mostly because I did not have a Q-tank available.....
Wendie,
OK, if you do want khulis right away, Fishtown-USA has about 20, and they seem to be healthy. A couple with really nice patterns too. (You can find them in the tel. directory for Flushing, NY). SHould last for a couple of days.
A really nice store, btw, all clean and no dead fish, except that they don't care about loaches. They do have a tank of clowns, these khulis, and thats it.
OK, if you do want khulis right away, Fishtown-USA has about 20, and they seem to be healthy. A couple with really nice patterns too. (You can find them in the tel. directory for Flushing, NY). SHould last for a couple of days.
A really nice store, btw, all clean and no dead fish, except that they don't care about loaches. They do have a tank of clowns, these khulis, and thats it.
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