ich.. HELP ME AND THE LOACHES!!!

[Xirxes]

Ich does not have to be seen to be infecting the organism. It can be in the lungs, doing damage, and not seen.

I do not recommend starting salt until all medication is removed(activated carbon reintroduced).

Once again, a DRAMATIC change in salinity will be the only effective way to kill with salt.

[poeticpyro]

Added some salt... not a lot...
increased temperature to 82degrees
i'm going to add the activated carbon back into the tank tomorrow afternoon and add a little more salt and increase the temperature again.

bought an air pump for 125 gallons... they're swimming in the bubbles...maybe it's itching their sides for them??

the pump is nice and quiet and has two outlets so i have an 18inch bubble wand/wall in there and a large air stone...

how long should i do the salt treatment and should i add salt daily or no?

[Xirxes]

go back a couple of posts and read all about it

[poeticpyro]

i haven't seen the light yet... added some more salt... probably up to 10tablespoons in the entire tank, maybe a smidge more... i'm going to add some more later on if they aren't improving... added a "slime coat" aid... "stress-coat" just to help these guys... and since the medication has been sucked out *thanks to carbon* i raised the temp to 86... i know it's a big jump 82-86, but that was the next setting on the heater... *stealth*


when do i stop treatment? like a week after the spots are gone? one of my loaches JUST started scratching itself today.. poor baby i hope it's alright. i've been treating them to brine shrimp and a couple of earthworms that we have reproducing in our kitchen... don't worry i've used them for years and we've NEVER had issues with loaches getting sick or whatnot. thanks to everyone for all of your help.. the loaches love you all... any more tips/help/advice would be MUCH appreciated... thanks!

[Xirxes]

I usually treat intensive no light, 86-88F, light food, 1 TBLSPN/gallon salt for 3 days, then slowly decrease temp over 4th day, water change 30%end of 4th day... lower temp down to normal over next day and watch for next week, thenwater change30% again, if you added 1TBLSPN/gallon these water changes will slowly bring down the salinity, while still benig effective over the next two weeks, if added less, cant tell when it stops helping mate.

[poeticpyro]

thanks...
i will add more salt making the total 1.5tablespoons of salt per gallon tomorrow. i didn't want to shock them into it... one clown is really getting covered in the spots... making me worry to death. i accidentally turned the light on today, but they were cool about it.. swam right up to me and wanted to play... i think SUNDAY i'll start to decrease temp... but thanks so much... i'm praying that they're going to be alright...

does ich usually kill them?? or is it not usually fatal?? (be honest) i'm beyond worried and if it does i want to prepare myself i love my babies...

[Xirxes]

Well...i did post here a number of times that i recommended 1 tablespoon per gallon as a max, and you seem to have done 150% of this... i have heard this working without damage to loaches, but please NO MORE SALT heheh.

Ich is a parasite, leave it and it kills, kill it and it wont kill. nuff said.

[Wendie]

I had the same thing happen. Three polka dot loaches had the ich but not another fish in the tank caught it. I used the Ich Guard for scaleless fish. It was slow but worked.

[mikev]

It is usually unnecessary to go to the killing concentrations of salt, even if you prefer to treat with salt. 1.5 spoon/gallon is very high. If you do want to use such concentrations, it is likely that giving a short-term salt bath will work much better; ich is also killed by the salinity difference.

Consider also the following: Ich is generally treatable with a variety of methods. Ich treatment tend to fail if there is another factor, not related to ich, that makes the fish much weaker.

Such factors include, but not limited to
* Uncycled tank (the most common issue with new CL owners)
* Very bad water params (check the oldest Xirxes' threads)
* Another disease

Three polka dot loaches had the ich but not another fish in the tank caught it.

Some fish have natural immunity (did you ever see a kuhli with Ich?), some develop it upon encountering ich for the first time. But unf., CL's with Ich infection are very powerful amplifiers, they seem to produce enough ich to overcome the defenses of most other fish.

hth

[poeticpyro]

alright... there is only a little less than 1 tblspoon per gallon in the tank... they're still covered in spots.. i haven't seen much of a difference... and honestly... i think the cause of this was a heater malfunction... because perams have been perfectly fine lately.

how long should it be before i see these guys start to look better? i added some "slime coat" stuff in there, the loaches played in it... very cute actually...

[fusQer]

i really really really recommend using Cupramine by Seachem. I had some medication resistant clowns, the salt, heat and malachite green for 5 days didnt make a dent. I couldn't put cupramine into the tank b/c of the live plants but I ended up having to quarantine them and sure enough cupramine worked with results noticeable in just 2 days. I've used it in at least 5 other ich cases over the years and must say it is the ich wonderdrug. give it a try...

[poeticpyro]

I SAW THE LIGHT!!

this morning i walked into my room and ALL of the white spots are GONE!! so i lowered the temp to 82 yesterday it was at 86, so... it was a drastic change i know, but the heater did it in 4 degree intervals.. i changed some of the water *40% and the colors on the clowns are MUCH better, they're clicking again and omg i could not be happier thanks to EVERYONE who has helped... i love you all and my loaches each give you a kiss...THANK YOU ALL SO SO SO SO MUCH!!

[fusQer]

lol!

[Fishhead]

In my experience, I've had luck in killing ich by increasing the water temperature to 86 degrees and using the one teaspoon per gallon approach. I increase aereation, and I also use Melafix in small (Half) doses. Since ich is a paracite that damages the skins of fish, when the cyst bursts, though you may not be able to see it, the skin is damaged.. I use the melafix to try and heal the skin as fast as possible and also to reduce stress while the loaches are recuperating.
Typically, I turn off the overhead tank lights, and let the window accross the room provide a less direct light. I might try the blanket over the tank idea.. Might be a good one.
I still do water changes on a regular basis while treating them, careful never to exceed the 1 teaspoon per gallon ratio. Mix the salt into a small glass until it's all dissolved before adding it to your loach tank. I do the water changes to avoid other maladies while my fish are sick. Fish that are sick from one illness can be more susceptible to other sicknesses while recuperating.

I did see one form of ich that was incurable. An independant LFS got in three of the broken band Hillstream Loach from a distriburor in Ohio. Absolutely the worst case of ich I've ever seen. The LFS owner treated them with "Clout" and within three days, all three were dead, either from the treatment or the ich. Remember when treating loaches, that they are sometimes called "Indicator fish", because if there is anything wrong with the water, they tend to go symptomatic before the rest of their tankmates. Ie; they are VERY sensitive to water conditions and treatments so you'll need to watch them VERY carefully and be prepared to make rapid changes (such as water changes or throwing in an extra airstone) if you notice them starting to act oddly.

Remember, I'm no expert, but this is what has worked on my three bouts with ich..

Fishhead

[Fishhead]

You couldn't have posted your success before I spent all that time replying?? LOL Good news!!

Hey poeticpyro, keep treating your Loaches!

Don't forget that the ich paracite is still in the water, and even though your fish no longer have the white spots, they can still become reinfected quickly if you stop treatment on the day that the spots go away..

I usually continue treatment for about four days after the symptoms are gone.

That is great news about your loaches... Good Luck!

Fishhead