Brand-new loach set-up; Everybody's feedback desired!

[Jamie]

Hi all;
I recently acquired a new 72 gallon tank (5 ft. long, 2 ft. tall, bowed front, 18 inches deep at widest point, 12 inches deep at narrowest point). I have kept clown loaches for years but, until a couple months ago, was an unknowing amateur. I introduced a new fish to my loach tank a couple months ago, without having quarantined it first, and it brought ich to all my fish. I lost all of them, except the new one (a pleco).
I joined the loach forum at that time and received invaluable feedback and information. Since then, I have read just about everything on the site, have purchased (and read ) Mr. Thoene's loach book, and have tried to learn as much as possible about keeping loaches in an environment as closely resembling their natural habitat as possible.

This will be the largest tank I will have for awhile. I will put my three black-skirt tetras in the tank to get the tank cycled before introduction of the loaches. However, I do have a 29 gallon tank to transfer them to if necessary. I also have a 10 gallon quarantine tank.
1. I would like to keep clown loaches. I know that 6 ft is recommended. Will they be comfortable in my 5 ft tank?
2. Otherwise, I have no demands . I want to start fresh with the best loach tank possible.
I am open to all suggestions!

[bslindgren]

Whether or not they will be comfortable depends on both spatial and temporal issues. Eventually the tank will be too small. I have clown loaches in a tank that is too small, and they are fine, but probably end up stunted or they will outgrow the tank. They grow fairly slowly so you'll have a few years to upgrade. But it may be better to go with some other species. I dearly love my clowns, but in retrospect I would have gone with one of the smaller species. Like you I am upgrading - in my case to a 5 foot (that's the largest I can fit) 112 gallon tank (I have been waiting for the darned thing for 4 months now). As you can see in the loach book, there are lots of candidate species that are really great. No need to squeeze fish that will become too large into a tank. If you are REALLY set on clowns, you should probably also be planning to upgrade the tank to a suitable size eventually.

[chefkeith]

You probably could get a pack of clowns, but you'd have to very very religious with water changes. Two 25% water changes per week would be my minimum recommendation. A daily water change system would be even better.

A TDS (Total Dissolved Solids) meter would come in handy to help you determine the water change schedule that is needed. As water gets more polluted by fish waste, it's conductivity or TDS goes up. If you measure the TDS of the source (tap) water and compare that to the aquarium water you can get a good idea of how much pollution is actually in the tank. If you can keep that pollution level under 40 ppm you'll be more successful in keeping your fish healthy.

Or you could just monitor Nitrates if the aquarium is non-planted and algae free. If you can keep the Nitrates under 30 ppm (even better would be 20 ppm) you should have very good success keeping fish.
You shouldn't underfeed the fish to keep the Nitrates or TDS down though.

TDS meters are much easier and 500x faster to use than Nitrate test kits. You should be able to find a good one on Ebay for about $20.

[Jamie]

Thanks for the initial feedback.

Frequent water changes won't be a problem (bi-weekly or more often) and I do plan to upgrade to a larger size tank eventually. In fact, the only thing keeping me from that 200g tank is lack of wall space in my tiny house (To make more room, I could get rid of the new wide screen tv and entertainment center that we just got. . . but then the only happy inhabitants of our house would be the clown loaches )
However, I may not be able to upgrade to the wider tank for 5 years or more so I'm starting to lean (sadly) toward not choosing clowns.
I definitely don't mind the extra cleaning work required, but I don't want to risk stunting their growth.

Chefkeith--I do plan to have a planted tank so I just picked up a TDS meter from Amazon for 21.99. Also, I checked out your water change calculator on your webpage, and I think it will come in handy. Thanks for the advice.

I'm aiming for a slower current, planted tank. So far, I have white, fine grade aquarium sand and tan pool filter sand for substrate. I plan to have rock caves for hiding spaces.
So, so far, instead of clowns, based on my planned tank set-up, I'm thinking of keeping six of each B. dario, B. histrionica, B. striata, and Y. sidthimunki (skunk loach).
Is this a good starting point?
Are B. histrionica and B. striata a good match with the other two based on temp preferences?
What about fewer species and more quantity of the species' chosen?
Thanks!

[Jamie]

Oops; I meant dwarf loach, not skunk loach

[chefkeith]

I'm really just a clown loach nut. I don't know much about other loaces too well. I'm sure someone else here will be helpful about the other loaches species.

Thanks for mentioning the water change calculator. That reminds me that I need to rewrite the program so that it will work with Firefox.

[zmo63]

I find most fish are more fun to watch in bigger groups and with fewer species, so that's what I'd recommend. Other people might have different experiences, but what I've noticed is, even with compatible species, that they just don't interact with each other as much as they do amongst their own kind.

The only ones I've kept out of the species you're considering are the sidthimunkis, but you just can't go wrong with them. They're social and very active during the day, and they buzz around the tank like little hummingbirds.

[Jamie]

Well, I think that I will stock B. histrionica and Y. sidthimunki. Temp will be 80degrees F, pH 6.8, a couple hang-on-back filters with extra powerheads for current, pool-filter sand substrate, sandstone and bogwood caves, and java fern.
How many of each species should I stock?
What about other species?
No LFS around me stocks anything but clowns when it comes to loaches. How does anyone feel about buying from Frank's Aquarium online? Or are there any other suggestions about where to buy?
Also, any other suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Thanks all!

[starsplitter7]

I have only hard good things about Frank's. Look at th garras too. They are so cool.

[Blue]

Never tried Frank's but I've yet to hear negative experiences. None so far and I believe Stan Sung, according to TFH, also ordered from Frank's for rare loaches as Frank's was included in his acknowledgement for those who helped him for his loach article.

[zmo63]

I just got my order of sids from Franks last friday. They're all very active and seem healthy. He was very good to deal with, just as I'd heard.

[Jamie]

How many should I order at a time? In other words, how many is too many for a 10 gal quarantine tank?

[grizzlyone]

Well, I think that I will stock B. histrionica and Y. sidthimunki. Temp will be 80degrees F, pH 6.8, a couple hang-on-back filters with extra powerheads for current, pool-filter sand substrate, sandstone and bogwood caves, and java fern.
How many of each species should I stock?
What about other species?
No LFS around me stocks anything but clowns when it comes to loaches. How does anyone feel about buying from Frank's Aquarium online? Or are there any other suggestions about where to buy?
Also, any other suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Thanks all!

Jamie:

Aquarium Adventure has sids as well as a couple others.
If you join the fish club, they run about $15 each though. Too bad you didn't know, but last week they had a 50% off livestock and plants.

They have several types of loaches depending on the time of the year.

I've seen clowns, several varieties of hillstreams, dojos, golden dojos, zebras, golden, sumos and many other kinds.

Ocean design usually has the seweilla although last time they just got in a mixed bag of other types of hillstreams.


Petsmart usually has a couple kinds (clowns and angelicus) and Petco now stocks zebras regularly.

Living seas get different kinds in regularly. I got some nice botia darios there.


Kevin

[YoyoGirl]

Jamie,

See if you can find a local fish club! I thought I was getting great prices in my area until I found a local Aquarium group who hooked me up with their local supplier and I swear I get most of my fish 50 - 75% off what they sell in the shops now.
It's totally the way to go!

[grizzlyone]

Just as I said that I got home and in the mailbox there was a postcard from AA that said they are going to have the 50% off fish on June 28 to July 6th along with $1 per gal aquariums (up to 75) and $2(up to 210).

Also, depending on when/if you do a franks order I might be interested in splitting the shipping...

You can also take a look at aquabid. They have lots of cool loaches and s section for them specifically.


Kevin