Potential Loach nut

carphunter57 · Post by **carphunter57** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:15 pm

Hi all. I've been lurking on this site for a few weeks now, read just about every post on the site now. What a great site with a wealth of information.

I have not kept fish for a good few years (20 ish) but have recently become very interested in the hobby again and am in the process of setting up a tank (1200 X 600 X 600. 400lts ish).

Loaches have also grabbed my attention (bigtime) so the plan is to have a loach orientated tank, not really big enough for Clowns, so I reckon it will be Kubatai or Striata's with some dither fish of some sort, Rasbora's or Danios.

I want a good sized shoal of Loaches approx 10 fish (how many in a 400 ltr tank?). I've read with great interest about the flow rates required and I'm looking at a slightly different river manifold type system to get that flow.

The tank I have is pre-drilled, so water will flow out of the back of the tank to a home made external filter built in the cabinet/stand underneath and then back in to the tank on one end via a manifold system (1" waste pipe) which will cover the end wall of the tank, the manifold will be drilled to allow a flow of water from top to bottom of the tank and will terminate in a reverse flow under gravel filtration system (nice round pea gravel and pebbles). I know undergravels are not the current trend but it seems a little crazy not to utilise such a huge biological filter, the reverse flow should also help to keep debris to a minimum and keep dead spots in the substrate to a minimum.

There will be plenty of bogwood with a good amount of java moss, java ferns etc growing on them, so hopefully I can provide a good home for the Loaches and their tank mates.

Looking forward to your comments.

Andy....

mickthefish · Post by **mickthefish** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:34 pm

it sounds pretty good andy, i'd use more javafern than the moss as these fish love to somehow get strand of the moss so i'm cleaning the inlets to my filters on a day to day basis in one of my tanks which houses striata.

my personal choice would be kubotai, as they are eye catching when young or adult.
hope you take some pics to show us your setup mate.

mick
ps, seen you lurking bud,

and welcome to LOL.

helen nightingale · Post by **helen nightingale** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:42 pm

sounds great. i love my striata, and one day i would like space for some kubs. they are very pretty. i know you will fall in love with either species.

what are your thoughts on yoyo loaches? from reading around, i saw that yoyos come from habitats with more pebbly substrates than some of the other loaches. someone who knows more may say i must have dreamt that up - i could be wrong.

welcome along. i hope you enjoy your times on here

carphunter57 · Post by **carphunter57** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:58 pm

Thanks for the welcome. guys.

I looked at yoyo's and was tempted by them, but the Kubs and the Striata's are just stunning little fella's and are fast becoming a must have.

Point taken on the Java moss, didn't think about the Loaches tearing it up.

I'm not rushing to set it all up, got a change of job coming up and loads of other things to do at the moment as well. I'll be starting to build the cabinet this weekend and will hopefully have the tank up and running in about six weeks or so and ready for fish late summer.

But I'll do some photos of the progress over the coming weeks.

carphunter57 · Post by **carphunter57** » Mon May 26, 2008 4:13 pm

I need some info on flow rates for a loach tank (Kubs).

I have read all the info on this forum and have to say that the flow rates talked about seem a bit extreme.

OK, these fish need a good flow but 10 and 20 times tank turn over per hour are very high, that means a pump/filter capable of shifting 4-8000 litres per hour, so before I get to far into the design side of the filtration I thought I'd better make sure I'm thinking along the right lines.

In the process of building the stand at the moment, so plenty of time to get everything right.

Cheers.

Andy

mickthefish · Post by **mickthefish** » Mon May 26, 2008 4:42 pm

Andy, i reckon my 6 footer has a flow rate of around 5-6 times an hour and all the fish in it look top notch,
i have a large external and a fluval 4 internal running this tank.
i think it depends more on keeping the tank fresh with more water changes, my tank has about 70% changed weekly as ive worked a system that i don't have to lift anything, the waters drained out to the drain and replaced with a purifier hooked onto the tank.

mick

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:12 pm

I have read all the info on this forum and have to say that the flow rates talked about seem a bit extreme.

The flow rate should be very high. Do not confuse this with the filter rate.

OK, these fish need a good flow but 10 and 20 times tank turn over per hour are very high, that means a pump/filter capable of shifting 4-8000 litres per hour, so before I get to far into the design side of the filtration I thought I'd better make sure I'm thinking along the right lines.

The flow rater through the mainifold may be used as filtration or not with two oversized cannisters for your filtration and the flow increased with a Turbelle type pump and a power head blasting the surface to whitewater to get to these numbers. This will give you adequate filtration AND adequate flow with the surface being very important for 02 exchange which needs to be very high for the river type fish. The water does not all flow over the filters to keep you from cleaning so many filters and more importantly losing flow as they plug causing tank fluctuations in 02,ph etc.

When I started this high rate I see the excellent growth and appetites that did not appear on the slower flowing tanks I ran previously.The colors are more vivid and activity levels very high which shows me high rates of flow are better for my fish in my situation based on my extensive amauter fish keeping experiance which began in the 1970's. I did not belive it until coaxed into it and I saw the results personally. I am a beliver now pushing the envelope with flows of 40 gallons a minute in one 150 US gallon. I am still making plans on increases with additional Tunze Turbelle pumps for flow only like these. Again,this is in addition to filtration.I am NOT endorsing these people or site , just using examples for you I Googled.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~ ... ndor~.html

or

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~ ... ndor~.html

Mick is doing huge Water changes and using RO right Mick???

mickthefish · Post by **mickthefish** » Wed May 28, 2008 5:47 am

yup Tinman, i either use RO or i have a purifier as well, i have'nt used water out of the tap for around 15 yrs. the sleeve in the purifier is a 1 micron as 5 microns will still let bad things get in the tank, as i found with a tank ful of young discus i was getting ready for sale.

mick

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Wed May 28, 2008 10:55 pm

the sleeve in the purifier is a 1 micron as 5 microns will still let bad things get in the tank,

I am close to going this route myself but I don't want the added step......and costs. It is almost inevitable though....

carphunter57 · Post by **carphunter57** » Thu May 29, 2008 1:47 pm

Thanks for the replies.

As it happens Tinman I went and looked at a friends marine tank at the weekend and he has a similar circulation pump in his tanks to those that you sent me links for. I was already thinking along those lines, so it's nice to know my thinking is correct.

What I was finding hard to visualise was the huge volume of water that would be shifted per hour. Carl's pump is 5000ltrs per hour plus external filtration and spray bars, so in total he is moving somewhere in the region of 7000 ltrs per hour around his tank and whilst there is a powerful water movement it's nowhere near the boiling cauldron I had in my minds eye, so I'm happier with what I need to do now.

With regards the circultion pumps he uses, they were bought on e-bay and shipped direct from Hong Kong and are a copy of the more expensive name pumps. He has two that have been running non stop for over a year and at less than £20 a pop inc P&P they seem to be an absolute bargain.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WAVE-MAKER-AQUARI ... m153.l1262

I'm not a fan of cheap copies but the build quality seems to be fairly similar to the more expensive pumps.

carphunter57 · Post by **carphunter57** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:19 pm

Well. the tank has taken longer than expected to get up and running.

The new job put paid to any additional spends on essential bits and bobs to get the job done. Did not expect to have to go 8 weeks between last employers pay cheque and new employers pay cheque. But normality has now returned and the buying has begun.

The time however has not been wasted, lots of research done.

Hopefully have some water in the tank in the next couple of weeks along with a few plants, so maybe a photo or two will appear on this page.

helen nightingale · Post by **helen nightingale** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:48 am

yes please

i hope the job cahnge went smoothly for you

carphunter57 · Post by **carphunter57** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:32 pm

Job change has gone very smoothly thus far thanks Helen. Less hours, much less stress (although I do need a bit to get me motivated) and more money.

Did some work on the tank at the weekend, between family commitments and if I say so myself it's looking pretty damned good.

I have picked up some very nice bogwood at very sensible prices and have a stunnning centre piece which should have a real wow factor (is that possible with a bit of old wood?).

Some of the lighting has arrived, well impressed with how that looks, had a dry run with them to see the effect (literally dry as there is no water in the tank as yet Lol) the moonlight effect is stunning

Also I've been exchanging e-mails with Mike from Last trading post http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Last-Trading-Post ref plants he has been a mine of information (never had plants before, so I needed a bit of advice) and he's less than 10 miles from me, so I can pick up what I need without having to waste money on P&P he also has a bit of a soft spot for Loaches so I guess he may be looking in on this site in the near future.

Will hopefully have everything in place this weekend, outside chance of getting some water in the the thing, but aiming for the following weekend and then I guess the fishless cycling will begin, something else I have never done, but have read up on in the last few weeks. Becoming a real armchair expert Lol.

carphunter57 · Post by **carphunter57** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:58 pm

How is this for a bit of madness....

I went into our local hardware shop today, to get a couple of cover glasses cut for the tank. I gave them the measurements and asked if they could take a corner off the sheets of glass, to allow access for heater wires etc.

They asked why I needed the corner cutting, so I explained that the glass was for a fish tank. I was then told that they could not sell me glass for that purpose as glass was sharp and I could cut myself

I explained that the glass would be inside the tank hood and not easily accessable but health and safety laws say that they cannot sell me glass for a fish tank.

They will however happily sell me a stanley knife an axe or even a chainsaw all of which I consider to be a tad more dangerous that a sheet of glass.

This is a mad, mad country with very silly rules that really do beggar belief.

Will now order glass elsewhere, only this time it will be a greenhouse with odd shaped window panes. Lol

NancyD · Post by **NancyD** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 5:34 pm

To think they call Massachusetts a nanny state LOL. I guess I won't mention what I want glass for next purchase, you never know.

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