video of loaches - healthy or not

nighthawk · Post by **nighthawk** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:24 pm

I've got 6 clown loaches. Two have some spots and marks on them that I'm a little concerned about. These fish act perfectly healthy although they have been fighting alot. These spots and patches have been on the fish for several months now. The tank is 180 gallons, I do 50% water changes twice a week. Ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0, Nitrate is 15 ppm and the pH is 6.5. The tank is filtered by 3 AC 110's, 2 Magnum 350's and an Eheim 2217.

Here's the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUO7Q44scJg I appreciate any help you give me.

chefkeith · Post by **chefkeith** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:48 am

i couldn't identify anything that looked bad. Can you point out what you think the defect is and do you have any pics? It's hard to see with a video.

nighthawk · Post by **nighthawk** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:04 am

Thanks for replying Chef. Here's a few pix I snapped today.

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chefkeith · Post by **chefkeith** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:52 pm

In my experience, the black spots are caused by a hormonal imbalance that is triggered when water changes are done. I've found that minimizing osmotic changes is the best way to prevent the outbreaks. I suggest decreasing the water change turnover and switching to a slower style water change. Removing any rocks that are leaching will also help.

I suspect that the faded patches of discoloration are from the water changes also.
I have one clown with this type of discoloration, but since I have changed my water chang method the black spots and the discoloration have ceased to get worse.

The black spots are a pigment blemish just underneath the slime coat. These spots are not permanent and can be cleaned up with a prolonged bath treatment. I can discuss this in detail if you'd like.

I think the faded patches of discoloration are deeper and might be permanent.

nighthawk · Post by **nighthawk** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:38 pm

Thank you Chef for the information. So maybe I should do 4 25% water changes instead of 2 50%? As far as the rocks go everything in that tank has been there since it was first set up. The oldest loach is almost 12 and has been in there the entire time and doesn't have these blemishes. The youngest ones have been in there 2 years and also don't have these blemishes. Perhaps some are more sensitive than others?

I will definetly do smaller and more frequent water changes and take into consideration that some of the rocks may be breaking down. I appreciate your help and I'm thankful for this forum.

chefkeith · Post by **chefkeith** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:33 pm

nighthawk wrote: Thank you Chef for the information. So maybe I should do 4 25% water changes instead of 2 50%?

That should be better, but 4 - 25% changes is still a lot of water turnover for one week. Somehow I think you need to add more water volume so that the water turnover can be less. A big sump is the easiest solution. Some fast growing types of plants can help also.

nighthawk wrote: As far as the rocks go everything in that tank has been there since it was first set up.

One way to test the rocks is with a TDS meter.
Fill a bucket with some RO or distilled water.
Check the TDS of the water, it should be less than 10 ppm.
Then add some of the rocks to the water and cover the bucket with some plastic wrap to eliminate any evaporation.
After a week check the TDS. If the TDS has gone up considerably, then the you know the rock is leaching.

nighthawk wrote: The oldest loach is almost 12 and has been in there the entire time and doesn't have these blemishes. The youngest ones have been in there 2 years and also don't have these blemishes. Perhaps some are more sensitive than others?

Exactly. Some clowns are more sensitive. Maybe before you got them they were handled poorly. This problem seems to be most common to clown loaches that are or were at sometime in a hard water environment, then were switched to soft water.

nighthawk wrote: I will definitely do smaller and more frequent water changes and take into consideration that some of the rocks may be breaking down. I appreciate your help and I'm thankful for this forum.

Keep us updated. You got some great big loaches there. We all love seeing them.

andyroo · Post by **andyroo** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:14 pm

Just since last night one of the mid-size Y-modesta seems to have developed similar- dark spots like freckles on face and a few on flank. Rest of them are still 'clean'.
Will do 25% water change (it's been 2 weeks) and see what happens.
Will try to get a few snaps as well, once i've cleaned the glass a bit.
A

andyroo · Post by **andyroo** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:16 pm

Nighthawk,
Where are you and what's your water temp?

nighthawk · Post by **nighthawk** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:28 pm

andyroo wrote:Nighthawk,
Where are you and what's your water temp?

I'm at home and my water temp is 78.

nighthawk · Post by **nighthawk** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:33 pm

If I understood Chef right a 25% water change may be too much at one time unless the fish is in dire straits. Which mine aren't. They act perfectly normal they just have a few blemishes.

BTW, Chef I have removed all the rocks excpet for the quartz and a couple of others that I'm sure won't dissolve. Which kinda sucked because two of the ones that came out weighed more than 50 lbs.!

chefkeith · Post by **chefkeith** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:23 pm

I'm not sure what change percent will be too much. It's the rate at which the water is added that matters most.

nighthawk · Post by **nighthawk** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:51 pm

My bad.

I think I understand a little better. I was changing 50% (90 gallons) in about two hours. That included emptying and refilling. So if I could rig up some sort of automatic water changer that changed out all 180 gallons over a one week period that would probably work better. I guess the best way to tell would be to monitor the nitrates and watch for improvement in the fish. If I'm unable to do that how long should the refilling process take of say 45 gallons into a 180 gallon tank?

nighthawk · Post by **nighthawk** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:12 pm

BTW. I get what you're saying about the sump. However, my stand has a bookcase in the middle and two cabinents on each end. They are not big enough for a sump. There is no basement under this floor so I can't go that route either. The only way I see to add a sump in my situation is to build a nice looking cabinent beside the tank, put the sump in there and plumb it to the main tank. This may require a sacrifice to Neptune himself. My wife has been complaining about how much room the tank takes up ever since I set it up.

chefkeith · Post by **chefkeith** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:11 pm

Automated water change systems are excellent for fish with this problem. I use to run one for about a year, until I upgraded to what I got now.
The drip system I had I ran almost 24/7 at a drip rate of about 1 gallon per hour. Only problem with the drip system is that it uses more water to get the same result as a regular water change.

My water change system now is more green and uses much less water because I've added plants. Now I only change about 15-20% two times per week . The water change rate is about 8 gallons per hour for 8-10 hours. This is for a 350 gallon aquarium system.

chefkeith · Post by **chefkeith** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:24 pm

nighthawk wrote: If I'm unable to do that how long should the refilling process take of say 45 gallons into a 180 gallon tank?

The slower the better. Start off at 2 hours, then adjust accordingly.

Perhaps just getting them rocks out will help.

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