Alpha Loach Personalities?

[pierydys]

Hi guys! It's been a while since I've posted much, but just wanted to pop in and pick the brains of some loach experts here.

So I finally was able to set up a nice big tank for my SE Asian fish and it's been doing great for the last month. Everybody's settled in and eating well, water's good, all that jazz. There's some clown behavior that I'm slightly concerned with, though.

Previous to this tank, I had two clowns in a 50 gallon community tank with some other loaches and catfish. These guys are about 4 and 5" or so now, and there is clearly one that was growing bigger, higher, and generally alpha-loachy. When I moved them to the new tank, I added 4 smaller clowns (3" or so) to round out the troop. The 4" started hanging out with the new guys right away, and they have a grand time swimming around every bit of the tank and burrowing. The biggest one, though, has claimed the best rock cave and tends to stay in it all day, coming out only in the early mornings and evenings to eat. Whenever she comes out, the others all follow her around and do whatever she does, but for the rest of the day she'll just sit in her cave and watch everybody. None of the others feel the need to use their hiding places much, but she just sits there with her head poking out for most of the day.

Now, I've heard that alpha loaches tend to be a bit less active than the rest of the group, but this is a pretty marked difference and I just want to make sure that she's okay. She looks plump, healthy and active when she does come out, and nobody really seems to be challenging her. Still, she was much more active in the other tank and I'm just wondering if the addition of new loaches is making her feel more territorial? Do your alphas hang out with the group or just make the token appearances like mine seems to?

Thanks for any advice!

Angela

[Emma Turner]

My big Alpha clown loach, Marge, is active for hours on end during the late evening/night, and although hidden for most of the day, she does make the occasional daytime appearance. When she is out, she interacts with all the other clowns large and small. She is a gentle giant for 95% of the time though, and it is only when the next largest fish Stripes (a male) challenges her every now and then, that it all kicks off.

Prior to me being fortunate enough to rehome Marge and Stripes several years ago, the previous Alpha (a 9" female) was really bossy. She obviously got usurped when the larger loaches arrived. Anyway, she used to spend most of her time defending the left hand end of the tank even though there were stacks of hidey holes all over the place. Even when food went in, she spent more time defending "her end" of the tank than actually feeding, and so often missed out on certain goodies. She would chase one away (biting as she did so), turn around and chase another, only to turn round again and find more there! At this point there must have been around 30 clowns in the tank and so she couldn't possibly keep them all out of her area.....but she did spend a lot of time trying!!! This loach used to live in my parents aquarium and was the lowest ranking loach in there for years. She would get picked on a fair bit by their other big loaches, which is why we rehomed her into our tank. However, once away from the bullying loaches, she then became quite a bully herself in my tank. It was only when Marge and Stripes went in, did she stop this bullying and defensive behaviour. However, if Marge has taken a bit longer than usual time to put in an appearance, you can see that the old Alpha starts to get a bit too big for her boots and starts nipping again. This does not last long though as sooner or later Marge comes out and I think the sheer size of her is enough to tell the old Alpha to stop playing up!

As with people, the personalities of individual fish are always varied. I wouldn't worry too much about your Alpha loach if she is healthy and feeding well. It is likely that the cave she is claiming as her own is the best spot in the tank and with others fairly close in size to her, she is asserting her dominance and saying that it is hers. If space permits, I would think about adding more clowns to the group.

Emma

[Marcos Mataratzis]

Hi pierydys and Emma,

My alpha here tend to be hidden much more then others. Diferentily from Marge, mine is more active in the morning up to lights turns on (usually at lunch time).

Btw, I was thinking Emma... an alpha loach will be alpha for how many other loaches? If I have 5 loaches one will be alpha but... if I have 50 loaches? Still a single alpha or few smaller groups with an alpha for each group?

Marcos

[Emma Turner]

Btw, I was thinking Emma... an alpha loach will be alpha for how many other loaches? If I have 5 loaches one will be alpha but... if I have 50 loaches? Still a single alpha or few smaller groups with an alpha for each group?

Hi Marcos,

In the confines of the average large aquarium, where the group all know each other very well (likely having spent years and years together) and having no means of meeting other social groups, yes, I would say that the Alpha would be in charge of the entire group. I can say without doubt that Marge is in charge of all the loaches in my tank, which number 40+. But there will be a definite pecking order right the way from top to bottom, which is why you will often see skirmishes over certain places within the hierarchy.

I would be interested to hear from Chefkeith on this though, as he used to have numerous large tanks connected by water-bridges and so it was possible for individuals and groups to move around and interact or avoid each other.

Emma

[Botia Robert]

Regarding B. Kubotai,

My alpha Loach does have a favorite space and does have the propensity for staying sheltered rather than going exploring. It is gentle but in control.

Several of the other high ranking Kubs also have designated areas which they dominate and reside.

[namal kamalgoda]

my biggest clown is 5 " long. I have not seen it in over two months, but my wife say she still sees it occasionally in the day time. Unfortunately I'm at work . SO my alpha is definietly less active

[Graeme Robson]

In one of my Grrr tanks i keep 4 Syncrossus helodes with one of them no doubt the Alpha loach of the entire tank (yep even the Yasuhikotakia eos back down to him). He is around 6 inches. Activity levels vary with this chap, sometimes during the day he can hide for a few hours then appear in the open for a few hours. In the evening he is very active and visible for around 6 to 7 hours. He just cruises around knowing that no-one will bother him.

[chefkeith]

There wasn't much fighting at all when I had 4 tanks connected together with water bridges. Even Tiger barbs seemed less aggressive.

Ever since I changed to the new river tank there has been more aggression though.

I'll have some fun with the hierarchy names for this because I don't know how else to explain it.
There are 5 clowns that are clearly at the top of hierarchy.

The Boss. (a 7" male) . A mean boy. He tries to tax everyone for using the 6 foot cave under the Island. Sometimes after a fight he might disappear for awhile.

The Underboss. (a 6" male). He takes over when the Boss is not around. Not a loner. He's out and about most of the time. He's the top Wise Guy.

The Nutcase. (Rocky, the 6" male) Hides in his feeding hole most of the day. Stays to himself, loner, but if messed with, he will fight and he won't back down.

The Sleeping Giant. ( a fat 7" female) Largest loach in the bunch. She spends most of her time resting. She doesn't start any fights or has ever been bossy, but if the Boss pisses her off, she'll bring it to him.

The 1st Lady. (Amazing Grace, a very peaceful 6" female) Nobody seems to mess with her and she is the least bit shy.

Then there are 2 distinct groups-

The Wise Guys. A group of 18 - 5"+ nearly identical clowns. They're somewhat shy. I got them as a group from a dealer/importer when they were about 4”.

The Soldiers. A group of 23 smaller identical clowns. I can't tell one from the next. They are the least bit shy. I got them as a group from a dealer/importer when they were only about 1".

[Marcos Mataratzis]

Hi chefkeith,

But even when you had tanks connected couldn´t you say there were more than one fixed group with distinct alphas each?

[Ashleigh]

That is one lovely looking lad Graeme

From what I have observed from my lot, I have one very chilled out, patient Alpha female (Mouse). She is happy enough to share food with the much smaller individuals I have, and will put up with shadowing and all the other irritating behaviour the younger brats get up to. I also have one male who tends to be a bit bossy now and again and will challange the Mouse, but is generally an easy going lad The only fights I have observed have been with Mouse and this guy, but she soon puts him in his place-he then takes a hissy fit pushing all the smaller clown loach around for a while after. There are also a few spats that occur between 5-6inch individuals, but they are a rarity.

Ashleigh

[pierydys]

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Goober (my big girl) is my favorite, since I've had her from when she was a wee thing the size of half my pinky finger. I still remember the first weekend I got her when she got stuck in the turret of a cheesy plastic castle ornament in my beginner 10 gallon kit tank. So we've come a long (and expensive, oy) way, having her set up in a 72x24x20 with her own little band of minions I just wanted to make sure she was enjoying her new home as much as the others seem to be, since it all snowballed because of her! She does come out in the evenings to school with the others, so perhaps she's doing the nocturnal thing and I'm just missing it. I'll have to stay up late one of these nights and see. I don't suppose there's any way to turn her back to being diurnal, is there?

Emma -- Wow, sounds like a soap opera in your tank! Hee! There's not really much bullying going on over here, but you're probably right that Goobs is just on the paranoid side. I miss seeing her come out to dance for food in broad daylight though She's a laid-back kind of girl and I haven't really seen her fighting, though there have been a few chases going on amongst the others.

Will adding others help matters? Right now it's just the clowns in there with 5 each of rasboras, danios and barbs. I'm still giving everybody time to acclimate and am adding more decorations and plants (fake ones -- I've never had luck with the real ones) as they catch my eye. I am considering adding in the kubotai (a group of 5 living in the old 50 gal still) and going for a multi-loach experience. I've also been eyeing the striata for sale on Aquabid for far too long now. But if you think that more clowns would be a better idea than combining multiple groups of different loaches, I'll go that route instead.

Chefkeith -- Your names? Rock.

[loachcoach]

My alpha (clown) loach stays hidden a majority of the time. Moe, as in, Moe, Larry and Curly (the other two from his cohort) shows himself only during feeding time, and only for an instant. He grabs his meal and goes back to his hidey hole.

Larry and Curly are out and about quite a bit even during the day. The other three, smaller loaches (Adolf, Benito and Hirohito) are constantly swimming about and often join the 7 kubs when they do the loachy dance. The smaller clowns are so named because they are little dictators and I often see them "herding" the kubs and zebras.

I wish Moe would show himself more...he is a beautiful fish.

[chefkeith]

Hi chefkeith,

But even when you had tanks connected couldn´t you say there were more than one fixed group with distinct alphas each?

No, not really.

During the daytime, they'd investigate the other tanks, but by night fall they all be in the same tank, which was the river tank. Then they'd rest until morning and start all over again.

I don't remember The Boss ever leaving the old river tank, but the others at the top of the hierarchy would explore the other tanks constantly. They'd swim over to the other tanks independently by themselves, but sometimes other loaches would follow. The exception is with the Underboss, I don't think he travels independently. I don't remember anyone ever following Rocky the Nutcase either.

The Wiseguys and the Soldiers would usually only travel in groups. They'd gather together (about 4 to 12 clowns) near one of the water bridge entrances, then they'd all go through the water bridge at about the same time.

So it comes down to this, most of the larger older clowns are independent, and the smaller clowns are group oriented. Just because a larger clown is independent, it doesn't make them an alpha clown when the opportunity exists.


Here's another spin on this,

Genealogy may have something to do with the social structure of my loaches. I think that the Wiseguys may have the same biological parents. The Soldiers probably have the same biological parents also.

The other 4, The Boss, The Nutcase, the Sleeping Giant, and Amazing Grace are not connected to the others biologically, which may be why they are not group oriented. Whereas the Underboss is a Wiseguy and is more group oriented.

Confusing? Yes it is.

[Marcos Mataratzis]

Thanks for the answer chefkeith,

Indeed a bit confusing but main idea is that there is only a single alpha whatever happens and it does not depend on quantity of loaches present.

[namal kamalgoda]

I have not seen it in over two months,

having said that murphy law would decide that the alpha makes an apperance with morning. I got late to work watching it. It was very peacefull and shared food with the other.