Distrubing TDS readings from my new meter

[jwyfk]

I just tested my tap and aquarium water with my new meter. Tap water = 562, and aquarium = 601. I don't know what to do. Should I call the water company?

[Diana]

My tap water is generally in the uppermost 200s to low 300s.
When I have been doing more topping off (like in hot weather) the tank TDS can be double that (takes several months to climb, and I am dosing plant fertilizers, too)
Hardwater aquariums (Lake Tang, Rainbow fish) are close to 1000, and the brackish water tank is not quite 2000.

I would think that your tap to tank ratio is really good.
Does your water company report suggest it should be higher or lower than the reading you got?

[jwyfk]

Thanks for the reply! I haven't spoken with the water company yet, but according to the information from the seller's auction, and what I've read from other sources online, 500ppm is the EPA's maximum contamination level. Here is the graph:



The loaches eat well, but I've had a few problems with strange markings, etc. Although I'm not an expert, I've been keeping loaches for a long time, and I don't think they like the water. In my previous homes, they would lie down on their sides, lined up in the front of the tank and on rocks, and just relax. They don't do that anymore.

I was wondering if Kent's toxic metal sponge would be beneficial? It can be regenerated:

http://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent ... sponge.htm

[chefkeith]

Many people have hard tap water like that. There is nothing the water company will do to help. You can cut the tap water with RO water like how a few other people do here.

What matters most is the difference between the tap and tank water TDS readings. 601 - 562= 39 ppm. I think 39ppm is good and where you want to be.

[chefkeith]

I don't think a metal sponge will help much. A Reverse Osmosis unit is the way to go. There are very affordable RO systems on Ebay. I think I got mine for about $99.

[Diana]

If this is a temporary condition from the tap water, and usually the water company delivers water with a lower TDS then use the various filter inserts such as water softener pillows, phosphate removers, copper removers and so on. These will get very expensive, though, if this quality of water is typical for your area.

To lower the TDS you want to treat the water before it gets into the tank, and RO is a very good way to go.

Reverse Osmosis filtration systems will remove a lot of the various minerals and everything else in the tank. Removal rates are advertised as 99+%. This level of efficiency is probably only achieved by high quality machines used in hospitals, unter optimum conditions of temperature and water pressure. 90-95% efficiency is more typical of units used in the home.
The water that comes out of an RO unit will have a TDS in the very low teens or even single digits. This is so pure it is not good for the fish. You will end up mixing it with tap water to add back in some of the minerals the fish need.

If you want to see what this entails go to a grocery store (or fish store) and get a gallon of RO. Mix a few test batches:
25% RO + 75% Tap
50/50
75% RO + 25% tap.

Test TDS, GH, KH and pH. Retest the pH on each sample after 24 hours.
Some RO units will tend to lower the pH (complex reasons) and this will recover with exposure to the air. If your tap water has unacceptable levels of something like Nitrate, then you may need to make a mix with less tap water, and add some minerals for example Seachem Equilibrium, or Kent RO-Right. Lets ignore that part for the rest of this post.

If you find a recipe that you want, then you will have to make up this mix at every water change so that the water in the tank has stable conditions.
Shop for a RO unit based on initial purchase price, cost and life of replacement cartridges, and projected output.
Compare these costs and productivity on a price per gallon or price per 100 gallons, and compare this to the cost of getting the water at a fish store or grocery store. (Don't forget the cost of a trip to the store to buy it)

Sample calculation:
Required RO water production: 20 gallons per week.
Cartridge life: 1000 gallons (50 weeks- call it a year!) @ $15.00
Wasted water is 50% of production @ $.02 = $20.00 per year
Initial cost $200.00, amortized over 5 years= $40 per year.
Buy a Rubbermaid Brute, 32 gallon capacity and set of wheels to mix the water at the sink, then roll it to the area of the tank. $50.00, and it lasts 5 years (mine is that old and still going strong, so 5 year amortization is very conservative- they might last 10 years or longer!)(Pretty much gotta do this whether you buy RO from a store or get a home unit.)

Cost per year = $85.00 for 1000 gallons, or $.085 per gallon.
Less than 10 cents per gallon.

Cost to go get water from the store, if all trips are combined with other shopping:
$1.00 per gallon x 20 (1 week's use) $20.00
Buy (4) 5 gallon water jugs (I have NO idea of the cost!) lets say $10.00 each and they will last 5 years, = less than 20 cents per week.
Rubbermaid Brute same as above: amortized @ 20 cents per week.
Cost of gas to get to the store, lets say that 25 cents per week is more than adequate, because you are efficient at planning combined trips.
So, $20.65 for 20 gallons = 1.03 per gallon, or 1032.50 per year.
Call it a dollar per gallon.

[jwyfk]

Thank you both for the help. Diana, thank you for breaking down the cost for me, that must have been time consuming!

My problem is room. I rent a townhouse that doesn't have a basement with a sink. The hookups for the washing machine are in the upstairs bathroom closet, and there is previous water damage on the ceiling below it from another tenant using these lines. This is one of the reasons why I'll be moving in the Spring.

I looked on Ebay last night, and was overwhelmed at the choices. I'll do some Googling tonight and see if I can find comparisons somewhere online. I really need to do some research.

[jwyfk]

I just got off the phone with the water company, and she said that due to lack of rain, customers will be experiencing higher than normal levels of hardness. She said it was 852 at one point, but what I don't understand is why they can't filter this out? Rain water should have nothing to do with my water quality. There's no excuse for this, especially since almost half of my monthly water bill is sewage tax. When asked what the normal levels are, she said 500, and I told her that it was the EPA maximum. Her response was "Right, well, you said your reading was 562. It was 852."

[Diana]

Filtering stuff out of the water reaches a point of diminishing returns. They must spend a certain amount of money and energy making the water safe to drink (killing bacteria and other microorganisms), filtering dangerous chemicals and similar concerns. They have a certain budget left over for less deadly things, like the cosmetics of removing hard water minerals.
Some filtration processes also waste quite a bit of water, and in a drought or near drought situation they do not want to waste the water.
You want to pay more for water? Then you can get water with less 'stuff' in it.
There is a whole ocean full of water out there, and all it takes is power to make it fresh water, with just about everything removed. There really is no drought, just a drought of money to pay for such projects.

[chefkeith]

That water company is probably one of the worst. Those huge TDS differences from the water company is something that I've been warning people about for awhile now. Not many people realize how different the tap water can be from one day to the next.
A TDS going from 852 to 562 could have a significant impact to aquatic life.

Perhaps the problems that your clown loaches are having is a result of the high TDS and the significant TDS changes. A few years ago, my clowns were having a severe black pigment freckle problem because of large TDS changes. Large TDS changes can cause imbalance to their hormonal glands.

[jwyfk]

I understand your point, Diana, but at the same time, I pay a good amount of money for water that should be kept within safe levels outlined by the EPA. I'm ashamed to say that Pittsburgh has the worst air pollution in the nation. It's possible that the same businesses who pollute our air, also dump toxins into our rivers and streams. If the government feels it's OK to allow these people to pollute, then at the very least, we have a right to clean drinking water, or they should heavily fine these companies and use their money to clean things up.

chefkieth, have you heard of other people having problems with Pennsylvania American Water before, or are you saying that because of the huge TDS drop from 852 to 562? I certainly hope that my loaches have "weathered the storm" of these drastic changes.

By the way, is it bad to use the tester on hot tap water? I let it cool slightly in a glass, but the readings seemed to jump around more.

[chefkeith]

The TDS reading will automatically adjust to the Temperature of the water. In other words, the TDS reading is a number derived from a mathematical equation that uses temperature and conductivity as two of its variables. At least that is my understanding of it. So if the temperature changes, the TDS also changes.

I haven't heard anything specific about that water company.. I was refering to the TDS change. As for water quality, I've seen a few water reports where there are significant TDS fluctuations.

Here's an example of what I mean- http://www.scgov.net/environmentalservi ... Report.pdf

This report says the TDS range is from 360 to 540. I've seen larger documented changes, but I forget where.

[Diana]

So get a reverse osmosis unit that hooks up to the tap (Kitchen sink, probably), and is free standing. When you move, take it with you.

Test the tap water every time, and make up whatever mix you need to so the fish have stable conditions. One time you might need 75% RO + 25% tap, another time you might need 50/50... Gotta measure it each time when the water is so variable.

Use this unit to produce drinking water for your family, too.

[jwyfk]

Thanks, chefkieth. I was just curious if too much heat would damage the unit. In the link you gave, it said something about receiving and exemption from high TDS levels due to drought. Interesting.

Diana, I had one of those tap water mounted deionizers from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, and I stopped using it because the cartridges were too expensive. Is that what you're referring to?

[chefkeith]

I don't know if too much heat will damage the meter. I've never been curious enough to find out. I'm sure the answer is somewhere out there.