new Kuhli's; not sure which kind. (More Pictures)

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ALX
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new Kuhli's; not sure which kind. (More Pictures)

Post by ALX » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:42 am

I got two new loaches today. I am not possitive but I think they are Pangio anguillaris. Correct me if I am wrong.

These are the best pictures I could take before my batteries died.
Image

Image

You might be able to tell better by video..
Image
I am sure you all are hating that I have blue sand n my QT but that is all I have right now.

I found them at Meijer (grocery store with pet department) mixed in with some normal black Kuhlis. I was excited to see them! I had the employee fish me out 2 of them. I saw at least one more and I want to go back for it tomarow. I called it quits at 2 because the guy was stressing all the fish out.
But they are in QT right now and Soon I will be adding sand to my 30 gallon and then they can join my other 4 loaches.

I tried to feed them live black worms but they were either too squirmy or too large to eat :(

Is there anything special you guys do for your new fish while in QT? Or do you just keep watch and make sure they are healthy?
Last edited by ALX on Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
-ALX

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Graeme Robson
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Post by Graeme Robson » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:04 am

Possible Pangio anguillaris and Pangio doriae you have there.
Image

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Thomas
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Post by Thomas » Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:25 am

Hi Alx,

I would say P. doriae. If your loaches have nasalbarbels then they are P. doriae. P. anguillaris haven't these barbels. Another good hint is the different tail fin.

Image
On the left you can see the fin of P. doriae - right is P. anguillaris

Thomas

ALX
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Post by ALX » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:20 am

Thanks Thomas.

My 2 definately have nasalbarbels :)
I have some better photos of them today. I labeled them loachA and loachB so you all know which one you are looking at.

(loachA)
Image

LoachB has a tail just like the example pic given for P. doriae, but the other has more of a fork in the tail.

(loahcA+loachB)
Image

(loachA)
Image

I noticed that their skin is not shiny like Pangio doriae shown in the loach index. LoachB has a sort of dark stripe down the middle of it's side and a lighter colored underside. The other also has similar markings but fainter and less contrasting.

(loachB)
Image

(loachB)
Image

(loachB)
Image

I went back to see if I could find anymore of the loaches but I didn't see any.
I did get an extremely albino Cory baby though. It's so super white I can see through it. Image

Image
-ALX

ALX
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Post by ALX » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:03 am

Oh yeah, i wanted to ask... Is it incorrect for me to call these Kuhlis?
The common name would be eel loach right?
Sorry for the dumb question but I usually don't know the scientific/correct name for fish species.
:oops:
-ALX

ALX
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Post by ALX » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:15 pm

I went to the grocery store for a zucchini today. I stopped at the fish department first and found the 3rd loach that I saw in there! So I caught it myself quite quickly and completely forgot my zucchini due to my excitement.
They are not too hard to catch as they are slower than the Black Kuhlis.
I am just glad to have a round 3 of them together now.
-ALX

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Thomas
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Post by Thomas » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:19 am

I noticed that their skin is not shiny like Pangio doriae shown in the loach index.
It gives a few color variations of this loach and currently they all will named P. doriae. I have also found dark P. doriae between black kuhlis (P. oblonga). A few months ago in germany it gaves a golden variation of this loach (golden eel loach). I have bought six of them but they are very very shy.

Image

Thomas

Joe Khul
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Post by Joe Khul » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:33 am

Hi ALX,

When I purchased my three pangio doriae, they were billed as p. oblonga because they had a dark coloring similar to that of p. oblonga, but were longer and thinner. When i got them home, they looked more golden in color.

Thomas,

Thanks for the insight into the differences between anguillaris and doriae. I do have a question though, in LOL files, I notice that there is a pangio cf anguillaris posted by Emma & Martin that appears to have barbles:

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/pa ... nguillaris

I ask because I have never been certian of what my pangios are, doriae or anguillaris, and have yet to get a clear pic of my lil speedsters to
post (or it could be the camera). They do have a golden coloring. The question I have is about the barbles.

Great looking Loaches and neat video ALX.
Thanks for any clarification on this Thomas,

Mike
Kuhli Loaches are like Pringles... you can't have just one!

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soul-hugger
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Post by soul-hugger » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:43 pm

I love getting new loaches...it is exciting. Great pics :) One thing I noticed is how long and narrow thy are. I would have guessed they were anguillaris based on the pictures I have seen, but in the LOACHES book it does say anguillaris has no barbels. Yours definitely do, but they seem to be slightly different than those I have seen in other kuhlis, being mostly on the bottom of the snout. This may be a good identification factor, as so many kuhlis are so similar it is difficult to tell them apart. There may be one slight difference alone and that puts them in a different species. I would like to thank you, Thomas, for giving us those facts and for posting the pictures of the tails. It is great to hear info that is truthful and straightforward. :)

There is nothing wrong with calling your loaches Pangios, because all "Kuhli-type" loaches are Pangios, but calling them Oblongas, or Anguillaris', or Darios is more specific, referring to the species and not the larger family. I have three dark little loaches I bought in a coldwater tank. They were in the tank with the golfish and weather loaches, but I knew right away that they were kuhlis. I still don't know if they are oblongas, cinnamons, or something else, but I guess it doesn't really matter as their care requirements are the same, thought it would be nice to know.

As far as Quarantine, everyone does it different. Some people treat for parasites right away to be on the safe side, though most kuhlis are sensitive to medications. If you want to treat them, I would reccommend reading more on this site about diseases and their treatment in loaches. Another way is to just observe them and make sure they are doing great. Be sure to take some time each day to really spend time with them and look closely at them to make sure they look and are acting healthy. Make sure they are all growing at relatively the same rate for their size, and are eating well. Look to see if there are any abnormal spots or stringy things clinging to them, because this could be a sign of a disease. The pictures really help because we can all see they look very healthy right now. Most loaches are wild-caught, so will bring with them whatever they picked up in the wild. I would reccommend about a month in the quarantine. I know it is tempting to put them in the main tank sooner, but this gives you a good window to make sure that whatever they may have been carrying has had a chance to become visible to you. I am looking forward to seeing updates of how they are doing :!:

Good Luck!
soul-hugger

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soul-hugger
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Post by soul-hugger » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:49 pm

P.S.,

If you can find a few more of those cory cats, I would definitely reccommend that you get at least three or four more, because they love to be in groups. The bigger the better, as long as you have the tank space for them. He is a beautiful little guy!

Bye for now,
soul-hugger

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Thomas
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Post by Thomas » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:50 pm

Hello Mike,

Barbels yes, but no nasalbarbels - only elongated nasal openings. The nasalbarbels from P. doriae has a similar length like the "mouth barbels".

The P. cf. anguillaris question:

Kottelat wrote about two colorings of P. anguillaris, one with a spotted (I would say a bit more greyish) back and one with a plain brown back.

I believe that P. cf. anguillaris is the mentioned Pangio with the plain brown back. But: I only believe, I don't know it. This mentioned article is from 1995 (to be exact, the german translation is from 1995). I haven't any newer info about P. anguillaris.

I have here a pdf (1993, 4MB) about Pangio from Kottelat and Lim. It contains also informations about P. doriae and P. anguillaris. I can mail it to you if you are interested.

In this pdf he wrotes about P. anguillaris:
A detailed comparison of material from different areas might show that more than one species is involved.
It is a very interesting Pangio and I will definitly buy a group if I found some in the trade again. Currently I have only two of them.

Joe Khul
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Post by Joe Khul » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:09 pm

Thank you for that clarification Thomas. It is much appreciated. I am now 99% certian I have a P. doriae.

Thanks again!

Mike
Kuhli Loaches are like Pringles... you can't have just one!

ALX
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Post by ALX » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:41 pm

thanks for the complements on my photos :)

I am really liking these loaches. I firstly thought I would not be able to tell them apart from eachother but they are demonstrating their own personallities and swimming styles so it is easy. I like that because I can name them individually that way :D

soul-hugger, thanks for the qt-ing tips. I definately plan to qt for at least a month.

As for cory cats. I already have 5 so with the new guy it will be 6. If I count the new loaches there will be 7 of those. My tank is only a 30 long, so I don't want to over croud the bottom dwellers. I would rather raise their young than buy more anyways, thats why I am hoping this new cory is a boy.
-ALX

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