I must confess, it's all my fault.

[rarefaction]

Well everything was going so well. My new 55 river tank was set up and running. Got through cycling the tank with preseeded media, 7 preacox, and 1 clown loach. (he wasn't supposed to go in for a while but here's where it all started) The clown loach had stowed away on a log from their old tank despite my efforts to double check for passengers. Anyway all was well for a time...

Levels were 0-0-10 and the weekly w/c schedule had become stable at 25% so it was time to move the rest over to the new tank. All was well for a time... (6 or 7 days)

!!!Ich outbreak!!! April 8th! must have come from the preacox, the new tank was supposed to be the quarrantine... 3 weeks wasn't enough... nuts... exacerbated by new tank syndrome maybe?... levels are still great! 0-0-10... Hmmmm treatment begins....

Day 1 (4/8/10): Temp up slow to 84 degrees, aeration increased with added HOB. 50% W/C,
(3 clowns, 4 Kubotai, 7 precox, 1 BN pleco)
Day 2:temp to 85F 50% w/c
Day 3:temp up to 87. 50% w/c
Day 4:Rinse and repeat. Clown loaches only fish infected.
Day 5:Heat alone isn't working.... must be heat resistant ich.
Day 6:Treat with liquid super ich cure 3/4 strength.
Day 8:Repeat treatment with liquid super ich cure 3/4 strength. W/C per instructions.
Day 10: this isn't working, the Preacox are now visibly infected.
Switching to rid ich+ since I'm out of the other junk anyway.
Day 11-20: 25% to 50% W/C and 5 tsp rid ich plus. (lights have been off for a while now. I forget which day and didn't put it in my notes) Heavily debating aquarium salt, but never did it.

Lost 1 Preacox female and the smallest loach by day 18.
Temp down to 84F.
But the other two clowns appear ich free and doing well!

Day 20: Big loach good, little loach bad. Neither appear to have ich but the little guy is dying in the corner. The preacox seem better and only one still show signs of ich. The kubotai nor the pleco never showed any sign of infestation

So wish me luck in the twelfth round in this super ich fight... I have confessed my wrong doings and can move forward to polish this thing off.

Where did I go wrong to get into a 20 day fight?

[Diana]

There may be more than one species of Ich (according to Kordon), and their life cycles vary a bit in timing. They all move pretty fast at such warm temps, but by switching the meds you might have missed the timing on a few of the theronts, and they re-infested the fish during the change over.

If it really is Super Ich, the heat resistant one, then you MIGHT need a different medicine. I will try to find the links. I think it was at Skeptical Aquarist.

[Diana]

A basic recap of several parasites, scroll down to Ich.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa041

Lots of good advise and research about treatment. Debunks some of the myths, too.
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/ich.shtml

A little insite into how this parasite behaves in cooler temperatures.
http://www.koivet.com/a_ich_freshwater_ ... sease.html

Some more current info.
http://www.novalek.com/kordon/articles/ich.htm

[Ardillakilla]

Where did I go wrong to get into a 20 day fight?

When you didn't get a UV sterilizer.

[rarefaction]

When you didn't get a UV sterilizer.

Indeed... Next on the list is a ehiem classic, then uv...

Lost another preacox this morning, and only one still shows spots. 2 males, 3 females left. If they survive I'm going to try to breed them...

The other little clown didn't make it, so I'm down to one. (at least he looks ok, but he's been hiding all morning today)

[rarefaction]

Well, I see little other option. I'm going to start treating with salt. I thought I had this thing beat but now my smallest kubotai looks infested. I've followed all the rules... done relentlesss sand cleaning and water changes... medicated... increased temp... 12hr interval medicating....

I give up.

Sorry guys, can't afford a UV upgrade right now. Here comes the salt.

[kimura]

Some people might not agree with the ethics of this but If you can
find a UV light locally I would buy it on a credit card and then return
it before your payment is due. Two weeks should be enough to
knock out your ich. I was in a very similar situation and could
not get rid of the ich. After two weeks and hundreds of gallons changed
I bought a UV light and the problem was solved. I did return my light
but I ended up buying one later on from the store I returned mine to.

Of course you can also buy it locally, return it, then buy it online for cheaper . I don't even mess with meds for ich anymore. I up the temp
to 82, add some air stones and hook up the UV light. I' ve had 3 ich problems in the last 10 years and havent lost a fish to it in that time
peroid. Good luck.

[rarefaction]

Some people might not agree with the ethics of this but If you can find a UV light locally I would buy it on a credit card and then return it before your payment is due.

That's exactly why we can't afford things like insurance anymore, abuse of the system that's designed to protect the consumer. Good idea but I can't be 'that' hypocrite.

Anyhoo, I'm finally seeing some results. I did a 50% water change on sunday and added 10 tablespoons of aquarium salt 4 times, spaced out 12 hours apart.
After 3 days the kubotai were still infested and my surviving clown was re-infested (the preacox have gotten over it a while ago, and my pleco never showed signs). So I added another 10 tablespoons. Two days later (today) the ich is gone from the fish. (and my java fern is pissed...)

A month and a week ago this fight started.
That's when I found this magic formula. 1 TBSP per gallon = .3% salinity.
You'd think this info would be the first line of every page explaining how to treat ich with heat and salt. I'm going to hold off on my weekly water change for 3 more days, wish me luck... or everybody chip in and get me some UV.

[chefkeith]

Be sure to just do small water changes and do them very slowly. Changing the salinity of the water can be very harmful to the fish if it's done too quickly, especially when lowering the salinity. It will take about 20 - 20% water changes to remove most of the salt. If the water changes are done daily, it will take about 3 weeks to get the water back to normal. Add the water back slowly, like one drip at a time slow.

[rarefaction]

Changing the salinity of the water can be very harmful to the fish if it's done too quickly, especially when lowering the salinity.

Good to know, thanks!

[Diana]

Ditto chefkeith: Smaller water changes without adding salt spread out over a month are going to lower the salt level slowly, at a rate the fish can handle.

If you need to do larger water changes, then add a small amount of salt to the new water, perhaps half as much as is in the tank. This will still help lower the salt level, but not too fast.

[rarefaction]

Well, it's a month and three weeks later and I'm declaring the war over. I'm still lowering the salinity back down slowly, and all my surviving fish are out and about acting back to normal!

Before adding the salt I lost 4 female preacox and 2 clown loaches.
After salt... total improvement. I saw no signs of stress when I added it and none taking it out. This method is now my first line of defense if I encounter ich again, no matter how much I read about "Don't use salt with loaches"!

Now I have to find more female preacox so the 2 boys don't harass the last girl to death
The only place that has them is where the Ich came from in the first place.... lame...

[Diana]

Quarantine tank.