panda loach(goby) [Protomyzon pachychilus]

[ozzywaw]

hello,

does anybody knows how old panda loaches can be?

does anybody know something about the breeding of them?

thnx and greeting

[ch.koenig]

Hi
Yaoshania pachychilus has been bred by Friedrich Bitter in 2014. Report in AMAZONAS September/Oktober.
As he has visited the origin river in south-china, he had some interesting news about to report. First question in keeping is, why they are so hard to keep in longer terms. Mine had all gone after three and a half year. Water-emperatures in that region is very low - down to 10. That means, they need very well oxygenated water and the temperatures over 21 - as in our tanks - are bad for keeping. I lost a lot of them in a summer with temperatures over 28.
Nobody can tell you, how old they become.
In Germany ther has been some effort to breed
https://my-fish.org/zuchtprogramm/zucht ... -schmerle/
as result
https://my-fish.org/yaoshania-pachychilus-5/
https://my-fish.org/yaoshania-pachychilus-chen-1980-2/
https://my-fish.org/yaoshania-pachychilus-21/
https://my-fish.org/yaoshania-pachychilus-3/
https://my-fish.org/yaoshania-pachychilus-10/
https://my-fish.org/yaoshania-pachychilus-7/
https://my-fish.org/yaoshania-pachychilus-4/

They breed easily, but they don't last. Latest info is from the breeders above in 2015 (Gerhard Ott). As far I can see, there has not yet been a succesful breeding with F1.
Cheers Charles

PS
in english
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/ya ... chychilus/

[atmichaels]

I've been breeding these for a couple years now, including F1's. In fact, there's another member on here (zeelandtrop) who has raised fry from my F1's.

[Jim Powers]

I saw some of his fry when I was in Grand Rapids last fall.

[zeelandtrop]

Unfortunately I did loose a few of the adult pandas that I had raised from fry. They grew out quickly and looked like they were doing well, but based on the information above I suspect the sudden losses might be attributed to oxygen requirements? Temps in my unheated tanks range from 68F to 70F, so it's probably on the high end of what they prefer. After the initial losses I moved the two survivors to a smaller tank with a bit more aeration and water movement, and they still appear to be doing well. I have maintained them in the same set ups as my other loaches, and water temps in my basement typically don't get above 72F in the summer. I don't keep wood in my tanks, but I do add leaves from time to time. My Sewellia species spawn regularly in my tanks, especially the SEW01's. Hoping to acquire more pandas in order to get a group going again.

[atmichaels]

I now have several tanks of these but my original group is still going strong. Temp is consistently 70 - 74 (21-23). HOB filter with a turnover of about 10x plus a power head for extra aeration. I have an anubias and some floating plants (najas and hornwort) and cladophora on several surfaces.

*edit* I also have a sponge filter rated for 40 gallons

Ken- if you get to this side of the state, let me know and I'll hook you up.

Austen

[NancyD]

zeeland, how hard is your water? When I lived in Western Mi, we had very hard water. I bet atmichael's is pretty soft. I wonder if that could be a factor, just an idea.

[atmichaels]

True, my water is on the softer side. I haven't checked gh or kh in a while but my TDS are 120-135. My pH is right around 7.2

Austen

[NancyD]

Yep, that's pretty soft, I bet nice Detroit river water. We had the opposite in Kalamazoo when we lived there...way back when...35+ years ago. To my mind, Zeeland is Grand Rapids-ish...& likely harder water from what I recall. Just a thought...

[zeelandtrop]

Thanks Austen, I'll keep it in mind. I was hoping to make it to a couple of fish club auctions on the east side this spring, but that didn't happen. Hopefully a shop hop to the east side will work out this summer.

Our Lake Michigan tap water in Holland/Zeeland is pretty good. I've bred over 170 species in it, including many cichlids, corydoras cats, livebearers, killis, native Michigan fish, and a couple generations of Senegal bichirs. I usually don't mess with it except for dechlorinator, or the occasional addition of RO water during a water change to simulate a rain storm. I'll add a chunk of limestone if I'm working with Tanganyikan cichlids, or leaves for added cover and for fry to graze on, but that's about it.

[NancyD]

I wasn't casting aspersions on your fish keeping or breeding abilities, zeeland, lol. I was looking for an explanation for your F1 loses. I don't really know what "pretty good" water looks like, I've lived in 4 very different areas, all with different water parameters & in all I was able to breed at least some fish well. I was just sharing my Michigan water issues as I recall them...back in the days I lived there. I have lost some F1 sewellia sooner than I'd expected here although they still breed for me....but with kind of opposite low to high TDS & high to low, depending on where I've lived. I don't know if that's a factor, but I thought it a discussion point. It's all good!

[zeelandtrop]

No worries. My "pretty good" wasn't a very accurate description.... I haven't tested in a while, but as I recall the results I had were close to what atmichaels reported. I've heard once you go further inland and start drawing well water it turns into liquid rock.

[Jim Powers]

I have often wondered if the temperature wasn't a limiting factor for some of the hillstreams, particularly the Chinese species.
I do not get the spawning from the chenis I now have compared to years ago when my tanks were a few degrees cooler. Two or three years ago I ran across some Crossostoma lacustre and they did very well for me at first, even spawning at least once. But, I never saw any fry even though the eggs appear to have hatched in the gravel and the adults gradually died off. The tank was (and still is) a steady 75F up from 68-72F that is was when I first set it up and prior to me adding larger powerheads. These temps are not a problem for Sewellia,however, since I get spawns all the time.

[MikeB1039]

Wondering if anyone has any solid care info on water type on these? Are they brackish? Or will they do ok with dwarf gourami, tetra, dwarf cichlids,etc.? Came across some & thinking of adding them to my freshwater community.

[Jmdc221]

Hi zeelandtrop and atmichaels, I am very interested in learning your breeding success with these great panda loaches. I live in Toronto, so it’s very difficult to find them. I have 3 that I have had for 1.5 years. They are happy and kept with shrimp and would love to breed. Not sure I have enough though or able to sex them. I originally received 8 but 4 were DOA or passed a day later. One just recently disappeared on me.

It would be great to understand your routine and setup to breed. You touch on some items but could you each please share details on your own tank setup, tank layout, water parameters, water change routine, fish/plants/etc kept with them, foods used/frequency fed, keeping eggs and fry alive and anything you think are key points to be successful. I know it’s asking a lot to take the time to write that all up but you two seem to be only ones in my research besides one other person to actually breed them. This would be much appreciated if you could. Glad to share my personal email if you want to connect offline.