Do hillstream loaches sift through sand?

[ch.koenig]

Hi
G. scitulus both
Cheers Charles

[Loachloach]

Thanks Charles.

Could you show me a picture of G.Ctenocephalus?

Thanks in advance.

So is my first picture below also a scitulus? That was taken the first day but the tail and dorsal are both blue. The tail has thin parallel uninterrupted black lines.



I was comparing to the second image below and the tail of those I thought are G.Ctenocephalus look like the second image, not the first.



My "Scitulus" doesn't look like any of the two images. It has an "eye" in the middle and the black is vertical, on the perimeter of the tail. There are no horizontal lines. The tail is not fully spread out but I'll try to catch the loach in better view.

[NancyD]

There's a lot of variation in animal markings. I think the "eye" pattern is just an individual difference & Charles is right, it's a scitulus. It's body spots are larger along the spine, smaller on the head. Your latest pic looks to me like ctenocephalus striped tail even though it's stripes look narrower, it's spots are uniformly all over & smaller. I don't always see the blue in mine, I think it's a mood or breeding thing...or in my case, algae coated glass & floating plants altering the lighting.

Check out several pics of ctenos (including some of Charles') http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/ga ... ocephalus/
Now, to my uneducated eye some of those almost look like scitulus. & sometimes, like with your new fish, they're mixed together. I don't know, you don't have accurate collection data, they could have been combined at several points in the distribution process on their way to your lfs...it's a long way from Borneo. Here are g. scitulus http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/ga ... -scitulus/ The key for me was red barbels & nasal nares, maybe as your fish settle in you'll see that & red on the tail too.

Nice of Charles to point out sex differences, too bad I rarely see more than 1. I "think" the 1 on the glass right now is male.

Oh, & on the microworms. I have a small culture that was given to me about 5 weeks ago. They seem to be doing well, but I don't think reproducing fast enough to supply 8? fish as anything more than a small supplemental food. Maybe your culture size & care will have better results. I talked to the guy I got them from & he starts new batches almost once a month. I already let my banana worms die off I think they may have gotten too hot sitting on top of my tank.

[Loachloach]

Thanks Nancy.

Your latest pic looks to me like ctenocephalus striped tail even though it's stripes look narrower, it's spots are uniformly all over & smaller.The key for me was red barbels & nasal nares, maybe as your fish settle in you'll see that & red on the tail too.

Yes, 6 of mine are like the below picture. Yes, I've seen reddish on the tail. Picture 15 in particular from the link looks exactly like my 6.


My pictures


Then I have 2 of those below:





I can see the difference between the two types from a distance, especially because of the large non-uniform spots around the spine of the 2 different ones I have.




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[Loachloach]

Oh, & on the microworms. I have a small culture that was given to me about 5 weeks ago.

I bought two large culture starters. I've no idea what will arrive but I am planning on starting two. Even a tiny bit of supplement, if they eat it, will be good for a start. They're already eating something because the poop is everywhere. I've transferred 5 large flat stones from my pond so far. There's 2 or 3 more as I found some half buried in the sand. Funny, but those stones are about 7 years old and there's not much of anything visible on them. It doesn't give me any hope of growing algae on stones in the hillstream tank....but I hope some micro-organisms at least...The anubias is definitely getting covered in some algae and I saw loaches rasping on the wood also. I may transfer some wood too from the pond if I get stuck for food although my pleco will be very cross with me...

They seem to have settled as I saw a lot of activity over the last two days. They are out and about around munching on stones with occassional fights. The only two loaches to be seen on the sides of the tank are the ones on my 2nd picture in the above post, with the big dots on the back. It looks like they prefer it there for some reason. It could be because they're smaller and get kicked out of the stones too....

[ch.koenig]

Hi
For the difference see this
https://picload.org/view/dailagoa/scitu ... 0.jpg.html
https://picload.org/view/dailagol/img_c ... 8.jpg.html
Number of spots, irregular/regular distribution of spots, larger and smaller size of spots/more uniform size of spots.
Cheers Charles

[NancyD]

Hooray for poop!

[Loachloach]

Thanks Charles.

Yes, I think the size of the spots is quite noticeable, especially that all I see them from is above in the tub they're in.

The below is one of the bigger guys I just snapped a picture of. He was too shy to spread the tail but the tail is blue with parallel black horizontal strips. The edges of the tail is red. One can actually see the hint even though the tail is not spread out.
I may have more than two scitulus but I think I definitely have ctenocephalus as well.

I am not sure what this guy is then?

[Loachloach]

Hooray for poop!

Yep I just cleaned up another lot, lol. What are they pooping I do put food every day and I take it out the next day....I don't ever see it touched...

[Loachloach]

I found the below link about G.Ctenocephalus. There are several pictures available and majority of my loaches look exactly like those pictures, completely identical down to all fin pattern. So I am pretty certain I do have at least 5-6 ctenocephalus if the link below is anything to go by..I am saying 5-6 because there's a chance I haven't seen well all the loaches I bought......but I definitely have a minority of sciitulus, so far 2 identified.

http://diszhal.info/english/loaches/en_ ... phalus.php

Now, the important part....I've been putting food in the tank around the same spot near the intake because it ends up there anyway even if I put it elsewhere and it was easy to siphon out as well since they weren't eating it.....There's this loach that has taken residence on a stone right next to the intake. So he's been exposed to all the food I've tried so far. Today he's been all over the repashy stone. He isn't particularly going for the repashy as most of it has fallen around the stone but I think he's eating some of it accidentally and he seems to come back to the same stone...which is right next to his other favourite stone..So it seems being consistent and putting the food may work eventually. I'll put a couple of more stones this evening on different spots and see if others will venture, now that I think they've settled well. I think the problem is that they've taken territories and don't go browsing around but keep to their chosen spots...If another loach comes by, they chase it away. So I need to cover more ground...

[ch.koenig]

Hi
I wouldn't relay on a site that is stealing pics everywhere - three in the link are mine; do I see a notice about the author? Other pics in other priofiles- and giving wrong informations.
You want an example?
"their mainly diet should be algae, and other vegetable matter"
That's nonsense and the best way to kill them slowly.
Or
"The most important thing is the clean, fast flowing, and well-oxygenated water, which can be achieved by an over-sized filter"
That's nonsense too. They need clean ... and well-oxygenated water. Point. Clean doens't mean an oversized filter but water changes and well-oxygenated doesn't mean water currenta but diffusers. As a matter of fact, ibn their habitat they are grazing in the strong current because they developped a maximum adaption to these places with densly packed algae (microorganism). Tha'ts their ecological niche where they are highly competitive. Apart of that theyy prefer not exhausting places.
I tried an oversized setup: a 1000 liter Turbelle in a 80x35x40 tank. They really laughed at that current, swimming tail first against it. But: they were really concerned while surching the food we can furnish in a tank. It goes right into the filter or stays in the filter sponge. And they hate this surface. If you make the food drop in a lee side place, they are all there and don't stop argueing. So: pure stress.
"4-5 fish for 100 litres"
Too small group. If you buy 4/5 and loose 2 there is all the stress on the weak one. And frankly: who takes a hundert liter tank for such a small group only.
Minimum group-size: 10 in at least 54 lt (standard-tank).
Sometimes I ask myself why we have made such efforts on seriouslyfish to bring together scientific facts and empirical values. And now another site which just copies everwhere and invents new facts. Frustrating.
Your ID is correct.
Cheers Charles

[Loachloach]

Thank you very much for the comprehensive answer.

I understand your frustration

I gathered that much from the website. I only posted it for the pictures.

I know they aren't algae eaters at all and its the micro-organism in the periphyton, etc..that they eat but they don't need to be limited to that in a fish tank. I've also read the seriously fish info but it's repetitive regardless of the species of hillstreams. I was trying to find something related to the species I have but there's so little info out there.

My filter flow is about 14x and I think it should be plenty. I know from experience and reading oxygen is the most important, regardless of the setup. I try to maintain high oxygen levels in all my tanks. I have a spraybar blasting the surface on the hillstream tank so hoping that will help plus some plants growing in pots. Plants and good surface movement works for my other loaches. I am also good at regular large water changes long term, for all my fish in general but with new fish I do daily for the first couple of months at least, so that's what I've been doing so far. I think it really helps fish settle better and prevents diseases. I think all the loaches made it so far but that may change if I don't sort out the food issue.

What temperature do you recommend for the species I have? ....as minimum to set the heater or as a constant as mine tends to drop way below 20 sometimes, not that often but it does as I know it does on my cold water shrimp tank that sits without a heater.

Also, what do you feed yours? Or what is best to get them to eat offered food then I can slowly try them on other stuff... It's been a struggle for me so far for these. Lots of poop to clean daily but I can't be sure all of them are eating and what exactly they are eating...

I'd buy on more loaches but I am just not sure I can feed them well long term...I would love some more They're very addictive.

[ch.koenig]

Hi
Generally speaking, the digestive section of Borneosuckers is down. After weeks without food, they get a first "load" at the importer. Not all can turn the system on again, it's not a switch. It happens, that a catcher resigns to get them out of the tank because they look too week. On the other hand I see a lot of hillies in local shops in a deplorable shape.
I feed: frozen stuff; dried food made in Germany after a formula of a Swiss breeder (the best on market here) in the form of flakes, bits and sticks, living stuff in summer and living artemia salina all two or three days. Vegetables and fruits as sport.
To seduce them to start eating: I use a paste with powdered dried flakes and decapsulated artema zysts. Sometimes cut red larvae work very well (small quantities).
Temperature: difficult to say. When settled the range of 20-23° is working best. With the last batch I had to rise up to 25° to make their digestice system moove. If they stay shiny it's worth a try with 28° and plenty of oxygen (observe the reaction). As we don't know the origin rivers (altitude) we can only take note of average grades. Some field notices with 25°28° exist as good as some low values in the mountains. And breeding temperature is another issue.
Cheers Charles

[Loachloach]

Thanks Charles.

I was already thinking to raise the temperature a notch to try to get them eating. It's currently at 22C. I think I'll bring it up to 24C and see from there.


I can order the following live foods. If I order today I might get them by tomorrow.

white worms
white mosquito larvae
newly hatched artemia
brine shrimp
daphnia
mysis shrimp
blood worms
californian black worms

Which ones are worth a try from that list until I can figure something else?

[ch.koenig]

Hi
white worms
daphnia
blood worms
californian black worms