I ask because my 90g is now down to one clown loach, turning 22 this year, and I'm sure he's lonely. But I've tried for years to add more loaches to his tank. Every single one has died. Even ones I transferred into the tank after keeping them for months prior in a smaller tank. The only fish that lived were, so far, giant danios (which reproduced so I went from 2 to 9) and a large pleco. The danios went in from the store, the pleco I transferred from a smaller tank.
The clown loach has been through just about every disease, and even flew with me on the airplane from Alaska to Pennsylvania. Right now he just has cataracts but otherwise healthy. He's had velvet, ick, columnaris, bacterial infections, and intestinal parasites.
I've cleaned and treated the tank numerous times, but I just can't get a single new loach to survive in there. Only non-loaches. Is the clown now a carrier for some virus that only affects loaches? Are there any researchers out there curious enough to investigate?
Any Loach or Fish Pathology Researchers Out There?
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
Re: Any Loach or Fish Pathology Researchers Out There?
I don't have any answers, or even thoughts. I know Mike Ophir used to do some fish studies as a grad student back in the day (mostly zebra danios I think, the "usual lab fish"). I don't know if he does fish anymore, I met him in MA ~20 years ago...A nice, knowlegeable man (young at that time, lol).
Have you looked at some google scholar searches? I don't know...I hope it's not your possibility of your clown now being a carrier of goodness knows what. That would be sad & kinda scary for some of our old loaches...
Have you tried moving your old loach into a different large-ish tank with other loaches? Maybe there's something about his old tank & all his treatments over time that has "polluted" the substrate or decor? Did you ever tx with copper? That can "stick around" in silicone seals. Really just guessing...
Obviously after keeping him for so long you know what it takes to keep him over 22 years. You're likely a much better guesser than I am. What are you water tests saying? I know, I rarely test old tanks either, let alone my water source, but maybe things have changed over so much time? Old tank syndrome can happen...
Have you looked at some google scholar searches? I don't know...I hope it's not your possibility of your clown now being a carrier of goodness knows what. That would be sad & kinda scary for some of our old loaches...
Have you tried moving your old loach into a different large-ish tank with other loaches? Maybe there's something about his old tank & all his treatments over time that has "polluted" the substrate or decor? Did you ever tx with copper? That can "stick around" in silicone seals. Really just guessing...
Obviously after keeping him for so long you know what it takes to keep him over 22 years. You're likely a much better guesser than I am. What are you water tests saying? I know, I rarely test old tanks either, let alone my water source, but maybe things have changed over so much time? Old tank syndrome can happen...
Re: Any Loach or Fish Pathology Researchers Out There?
There isn't much in the tank ever since the bala shark literally jumped ship (he'd jumped out 2-3 times before when I was cleaning the tank, but this time he squeezed out the canopy when I wasn't there). I have a black hairy algae problem I've not been able to get rid of, hoping the pleco can help me out since it did such a good job in its old tank. So the nitrates tend to run high, and the pH hangs around 6.0. Water also runs on the hard side. Not much I can do beyond changing the water more frequently but I really hate doing that on the 90 gallon more than I have to... my back, you know. I also use live plants (that the clown loach doesn't eat or dig up) to help with nutrient cycling.
I'm thinking there is something leaching from the sealant, or hanging out deeper in the gravel. I'd probably only get it at this point by completely emptying the tank, bleaching it to death for a couple weeks, and replacing all the gravel and decorations I can't bake in the oven. I will do that after Orion passes though, and even then I might just sell the whole tank. The only other large tank I have is saltwater, so can't put Orion there. The other freshwater is only a 16 gallon.
I don't think I've ever used copper in that tank. If so it was many years ago and half-dosed. Mostly I had to use Levamisol, flubendazole, or Praziquantel for deworming. Something about our water supplies always seemed to bring those worms in (hence I don't drink from our tap). I've thought about putting a UV sterilizing filter on that tank.
I agree it's scary to think a loach-specific disease is in that tank. I'm just not sure what to do about it while fish are still in there. I do have a textbook on fish pathology as well as a microscope, but I'm not trained in slides and I don't know what I'm looking for.
I guess Orion will just have to cuddle the danios.
I'm thinking there is something leaching from the sealant, or hanging out deeper in the gravel. I'd probably only get it at this point by completely emptying the tank, bleaching it to death for a couple weeks, and replacing all the gravel and decorations I can't bake in the oven. I will do that after Orion passes though, and even then I might just sell the whole tank. The only other large tank I have is saltwater, so can't put Orion there. The other freshwater is only a 16 gallon.
I don't think I've ever used copper in that tank. If so it was many years ago and half-dosed. Mostly I had to use Levamisol, flubendazole, or Praziquantel for deworming. Something about our water supplies always seemed to bring those worms in (hence I don't drink from our tap). I've thought about putting a UV sterilizing filter on that tank.
I agree it's scary to think a loach-specific disease is in that tank. I'm just not sure what to do about it while fish are still in there. I do have a textbook on fish pathology as well as a microscope, but I'm not trained in slides and I don't know what I'm looking for.
I guess Orion will just have to cuddle the danios.
Re: Any Loach or Fish Pathology Researchers Out There?
It could also be he's lost the herd loving loachy feeling? Like swans & some old people?, they're too set in their ways to be happy with new mates/tank mates that they don't know or that may be too "busy"?
I lived in DE for years & we had hard water (think Limestone as a name part for almost everywhere, lol). We kept clowns, the same 6 for a long time (15 years?). But that was back in the olden days when we thought we were awesome for changing 10-20% water every 3 or 4 weeks (ahem).
We know better now but I'm sure there may have been at least some "old tank syndrome"...What's your tap water pH & maybe nitrate too? We grew java ferns like gangbusters! Probably high nitrates but it also liked the hard water...when it got fresh new. We also used to age our water in gallon jugs all over the place, lol. No chloramines just chlorine, any cheap dechlor or even none worked after aging a while...My husband reminded me that we were Chemi-Pure users then (a filter resin, I don't recall all its supposed wonderfulness but it did help all our tanks & fish).
You're not that far from where we lived but you could have very different tap water. I've since lived in places with soft water but never with a pH of 6...maybe that's part of the trouble introducing new clowns? Not really pH shock as we used to say but more a matter TDS shock...I have some second thoughts about that in some ways. It was a BIG topic here on LOL & I was a believer...then my TDS meter died. Now I'm just back to confused at times...Plop & drop acclimation or weeks of slowly adjusting every parameter? No wonder I don't get new fish often...LFS water even a short way away can have very different parameters. Did you ever test the new fish bag water?
Sorry Ice, just babbling about clowns & water...
I lived in DE for years & we had hard water (think Limestone as a name part for almost everywhere, lol). We kept clowns, the same 6 for a long time (15 years?). But that was back in the olden days when we thought we were awesome for changing 10-20% water every 3 or 4 weeks (ahem).
We know better now but I'm sure there may have been at least some "old tank syndrome"...What's your tap water pH & maybe nitrate too? We grew java ferns like gangbusters! Probably high nitrates but it also liked the hard water...when it got fresh new. We also used to age our water in gallon jugs all over the place, lol. No chloramines just chlorine, any cheap dechlor or even none worked after aging a while...My husband reminded me that we were Chemi-Pure users then (a filter resin, I don't recall all its supposed wonderfulness but it did help all our tanks & fish).
You're not that far from where we lived but you could have very different tap water. I've since lived in places with soft water but never with a pH of 6...maybe that's part of the trouble introducing new clowns? Not really pH shock as we used to say but more a matter TDS shock...I have some second thoughts about that in some ways. It was a BIG topic here on LOL & I was a believer...then my TDS meter died. Now I'm just back to confused at times...Plop & drop acclimation or weeks of slowly adjusting every parameter? No wonder I don't get new fish often...LFS water even a short way away can have very different parameters. Did you ever test the new fish bag water?
Sorry Ice, just babbling about clowns & water...
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 37 guests