Mixing clown loaches and Melanoides tuberculata(Sand snails)

[JayK]

Hi,

I have a 63 gal. tank. On friday i changed all the substrate in the tank from 5-10mm chrushed sharp stones to 0,7-1,0mm natural grain sand.

The major reason for this change was to make my gang of 8 clown loaches even happier

Now they can dig as much as they like in the sand and have fun..

Also i made the layer quite thick allowing me to have a network of PVC pipes in the sand for the loaches to hide in..

Due to this thick layer of sand i want to add sand snails. I have ordered 100 sand snails. I will add 70 of them to the 63 gallon at night when the loaches are sleeping..

Any chances they will survive ? or will the loaches catch them faster than the sand snails multiply ?

30 snails goes in my small catfish tank with 5*panaque maccus.

I really dont want gas "pockets" in the sand..



edit: Adding another picture.. note the dot on the tail is on the glass.. not on the fish

[andyroo]

JK,

Once they figure out how to eat them they are all toast... nutricious and tasty snacks, that is.

I've got 100 gallons with deep sand and gravel mixed in a heavy current. I had a borderline overpopulation of a local invasive conical pond snail up to about 2cm long plus tons of juveniles living with the loach (clown, one little guy at about 5cm long). One day he (loach) figured out how to eat them. Today (less then 5 months) he's polished off the entire population but for an occasional hard survivour he pulls out of the plants.

Go with BIG snails strong enough to hold out. Don't expect too much successful snail reproduction and expect fat, healthy and happy loaches. They will love you for it though.

Andyroo

[JD]

I second that. You have have a few hang in there, but usually they will figure it out and eat them all. I had Mylasia trumpet snails, and tried to populate my tanks, but it never worked.

Sorry,
JD

[shari]

MTS will survive (at least some) in a gravel substrate, but the loaches will easily get to them in the sand.

Also, larger snails like Apple Snails, Ramshorn snails, become so harrassed by loaches playing soccer with them that they may fail to thrive. Once the clowns get the idea that snails are food, they are relentless. Even the big ones will have to close up to keep from being nibbled away and may not have enough time to eat to survive.

Just my experience...

[JayK]

Im gonna get 8 really happy loaches then
For 10$ i guess it's worth it..

I keep hearing that when using only sand as substrate you will get dangerous gas pockets in the sand if you don't keep either sand snails or heating cables below the sand to create circulation..

Any comments on this ?

Thanks for the feedback

[andyroo]

JK,

10mm isn't very deep... do you mean 10cm?
Either way, the clown loaches will be able to dig at least the length of their heads to get at burried goodies. Snails should help, plus they'll motivate the loaches to dig. Also check with this forum on loach spp that like to dig... horse face and such. Then there's spiney eels, snake eels, cessilians (sp?), gobies, tilapia and cichlids and some catfish who burrow, dig, mix, excavate and move tanks bits about. Depends on the tank-mates/tank community style and plants/decorations.

This under-sand bubble formation process is part of the natural nitrogen cycle... helps to condition your water. They're mainly methane and SO2; they smell, but they bubble off as soon as they escape from the sand. There was a letter on this forum who suffered a major die-off of hillstream loaches that he/she reckoned was from gravel cleaning and release of these gasses. Likely very sensitive fish or another contributing factor concurrent. Take care with overfeeding. Snails will help this by recycling excesses and by providing food so you don't need to feed so much.

Hope this helps. I have bubbles in areas under stones etc... where snails and loaches don't go. i don't reckon they're much of a drama so long as overall desolved O2 remains high with water flow.

Hope this helps,

Andyroo

[Karmic]

The last time I moved my 125g, I found at least 100 MTS in the sand despite constantly finding new empty shells. So I guess my point is that MY clown loaches left enough of them alive to continue the buffet!

I've had a pretty deep sand bed for several years now. I stir the sand with a dowel or whatever comes to hand on the rare occassions that it pops in my head to do so (not more than 3-4 times a year really). I've not had a problem so far.

BTW, LOVE the new forum! Much easier than the old one! THANKS!

[JayK]

Hi,

Thanks.. regarding depth of substrate 5-10mm was the size of the stones in my old substrate.. im norwegian som my english is far from perfect.

In order to cover the PVC pipes i have 10 cm of sand in the front and 15cm at the back..

If they eat all snails my catfish tank would atleast be a breeding heaven for the snails... So I guess i'll have a steady snack supply for them.

*Will continue my search for some bigger sand diggers to co exsist with loaches*

[mamaschild]

Just my experience

I've always dropped snails of every kind in my Loach tank. Recently, I've added even more MTS and they must be surviving to a point. I don't add too many BIG ones, but I keep finding large shells on top of my gravel. I've heard that some loaches will gather up snails and "hide" them. I guess they want a personal stockpile???

I also know that they are reproducing in the tank. I find little ones all the time stuck to the filter intake and in the canister. I wonder if my loaches are farmers

In otherwords, go ahead and add the MTS. It's very possible they will survive enough to give your guys a continuous treat :)

[mizpriz]

I had a huge infestation of pond snails until I got a pair of clown loaches. Those snails didn't last 2 days, literally! I was doubtful at first when the saleswoman at the pet store told me they'd take care of the problem. No doubts now. LOL And a wonderful side benefit was that I didn't know how much I'd fall in love with the little guys, so now I have four. I'm going to try to get ahold of some more snails and let them breed in my 10-gallon, to net out as a treat for the loaches.

Speaking of gravel, is it okay to mix the couple of inches of standard-sized aquarium gravel I already have with an equal amount of smaller gravel or sand? I'd like to let my loaches dig but I don't want all sand. I don't know if that would make it easier for them.

[shari]

Welcome JayK and my 'english' is American, so it's not always so good, either

I have only sand in two tanks, one is about 4cm, another is less. Both planted. At third tank has smallish gravel for 3/4 of the tank with 3" sand at the left quarter held back by largish rocks.

In the sand only tanks I stir the sand in the tank really well (rinsing the sand before adding it as substrate), and then add the water in, stirring periodically. Bubbles rise for 2 days, as I stir at least once/twice before I begin planting and then adding fish.

I poke the gravel vac into the sand at least once a month or so, just to turn things over a bit. Have not run into any anerobic spots as of yet.

The gravel and sand tank is FULL of Malaysian Trumpet snails, but has no loaches, so at night I pull some to feed to my clowns in the other tank. When I had loaches in the MTS tank, there were always little ones that would come out at night, but the bigger ones...well, they were gonners (as in gone forever once the loaches found them

Mizpriz--when you mix different size substrates, eventually the smaller size will sift down to the bottom...

[mizpriz]

Mizpriz--when you mix different size substrates, eventually the smaller size will sift down to the bottom...

Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. I guess when I get a bigger tank, I'll be taking the gravel out and sterilizing it to sell on ebay or something.

[andyroo]

The sand sifts through to the bottom eventually, but the loaches will draw it back up and keep it all mixed, at least as deep as they can dig.

Andyroo

[mizpriz]

I've read that dojo loaches like to dig even more than clowns - is that true? Mine don't dig in the gravel, but who can blame them?

[mamaschild]

My Dojos are in sand, and they will occassionally bury themselves. It's sort of funny to look in and see a bright gold head sticking out of the black sand

In otherwords, yes, Dojos will dig/play in the sand. I had them in gravel previously, and never saw them do that, so I assume it's a sand thing.