hi. i'm thinking of starting a clown loach tank. this is a long post so please bear with me...
1. tank dimensions: 36" x 18" by 18"
2. filtration: 2 3 ft. overhead filters, each powered by a powerhead rated at 1500gph.
3. 1 ordinary box filter with activated carbon connected to ac/dc air pump. (just in case power fails-extremely rare occurence)
heater: 150 watts set at 30 celsius. (im located as singapore so ambient air is already there, so im thinking 150 watts for 50 gallons should be ok already.)
4. deco: bare-bottom tank, with driftwood with some leafy plants rooted on it. maybe a few pvc pipes/spawning cones used for discus.
5. inhabitants: 5 clown loaches... 4-6 rainbowfishes...
i realize the inhabitants seem a bit crowded, but my goal is to get experience with these loaches, and then transfer them to a 4x2x2 where the loaches would be the bottom attraction and a solitary arowana will be the top dweller. I think 5 should be ok on a 4x2x2.
my questions are:
1. will activated carbon help in reducing my DOC levels? Should i also add peat pads to soften water and lower the pH.
2. will pH of 6.5 be ok with clowns? Will adding blackwater extract to soften the water and lower the pH be a good idea?
3. i normally perform a 10 minute salt dip for all fishes and also deworm them with parasite clear. (i plan to buy all the clowns at the same time, by the way, so no quarantine for them. the tank will be empty when i buy them, im currently cycling the tank with tinfoil barbs. The rainbowfishes will be bought subsequently and will be quarantined before introduction) Is this a good idea? Also, is it a good idea to "deworm" the loaches via medication? how about medicating for ich, even without seeing white spots?
4. what would be "unsafe" active ingredients in medication that i should look out for?
5. i can opt to buy large (around 5") loaches or medium (3") loaches. Would it be better to have all-large or all-medium loaches, or a mix of large and small?
6. what's the safest way to handle clowns? What to do if the spines get caught in the net?
thanks for reading the entire post, and thanks in advance for any replies.
new setup for clowns
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Emma Turner
- Posts: 8901
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
- Location: Peterborough, UK
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Hi libingboy, and welcome to Loaches Online!
Don't worry about the long post, it is better that you have thought to seek out some advice before you start keeping Clown Loaches.
The tank that you propose is a little small for Clown Loaches, really you would be better off starting them out in something a bit more spacious (maybe the 4ft tank you were hoping to move them into later on?). Clowns can grow quickly given the right conditions, and small tanks can stunt their growth. Also they are very sensitive fish, and really the less times you have to move them on to a bigger tank the better. You should bear in mind that eventually they will require a tank around 6ft x 2ft x 2ft at the very least. They can attain over 12" (30cm) and are a very stocky and powerful fish and at that size that require a lot of swimming space.
With regards to filtration, the more you have, the better. Clowns are river fish and so like good clean water with a large amount of flow. External cannister filters are usually your best bet, as they have a lot more space for media, do not take up any room in the tank, and can be serviced outside of the aquarium (so you don't disturb/stress your fish too much). Unfortunately I am not familiar with the type of filter that you mentioned, but additional powerheads are a good idea, to help oxygenate the water and provide a nice strong current.
The temperature that you suggest is a little on the high side, I would aim for about 82F (28C) if at all possible, given your warm location!
With regards to decor, I would personally recommend that you use a fine sand substrate which will not cause any damage to the Clown loaches sensitive barbel area when they forage around for food. Bogwood is a very good choice, as your loaches will love hiding underneath it. Just avoid any rocks that are sharp (such as lava rock) and anything that you are not sure is inert. You will probably get away with some plants such as Java Fern, Anubias sp, Cryptocorynes etc whilst the loaches are small, but take it from me, a group of very large specimens will trash most plants after a short time!
Five Clown loaches is a good starting point, but if you keep them in a spacious tank, you should consider keeping a few more than this as they are remarkably social creatures, and you will get to see some wonderful natural behaviour. However, one point bearing in mind is that Clowns really should not be the first fish added to your tank, they do best in mature systems. So you should slowly stock with any other fish you plan to keep in there, then add the Clowns at a later date. I know there are some people who probably keep Clowns in the same tank as an arrowana, but personally I would be a little concerned they might end up on it's dinner menu, given it's deceptively capacious mouth.
Is your water of a pH of 6.5 already? If so, this will be ideal for keeping loaches, and you wouldn't need to interfere with it too much. Their natural waters are soft and acidic, and although they will tolerate slightly harder water, they will thrive in the aforementioned conditions. If your pH is higher, you can add peat or a softener pillow to your filter, but by far and away the easiest (and most hassle free way of doing it) is to use RO water.
It is a good idea to use a worming treatment on your loaches as they can be prone to Chronic Wasting Syndrome (but do check the instructions on the medication thoroughly as Clowns react very badly to a lot of treatments, and sometimes half doses etc are needed). Levamisole hydrochloride is the preferred treatment among many loach keepers, so it may be worth you sourcing some of that. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the Parasite Clear treatment that you mentioned, but someone else on here might know more about it. There would be no need to dip your loaches in salt, and a sudden exposure to it could do them much more harm than good.
Again, others may have different opinions on this, but I would not treat for whitespot if you haven't actually seen evidence that it is present. As I mentioned earlier on, Clowns are very sensitive fish and do not appreciate exposure to treatments - treating whitespot for the sake of treating, when there might not even be a problem there will not be appreciated. Just make sure that they are caught, transported, and acclimatised to your tank in the least stressful manner as is possible, then keep a close eye on them over the settling in period to make sure they are all ok.
You will need to carry out regular water changes to keep the nitrates down and to keep your loaches in good health. Ideally this should be around 20% twice a week.
The size of fish you opt for is up to you. Clowns are not bothered what sizes their companions are, just that they have plenty of them! I have a huge range of different sized Clowns in my tank, from 3.5" up to 11.5", and they all socialise together. After a while, a pecking order is established, with the loach that is quite obviously in charge known as the Alpha. If you do want to purchase the 5" ones, you definitely need a bigger tank than the 36" one you talked about. They are very fast-swimming fish when they want to be, and that size loach will need a bit more room to swim around in.
You would be very unlucky to find that a loach gets it's spines caught in your net, as it doesn't actually happen very often when they are netted correctly in a calm manner. If it does happen, holding the net material very taught will usually cause the fish to free itself. In the worst case scenario, you would have to cut the net carefully with a pair of scissors, leaving a small square of net around the spine. This should then work it's way loose of it's own accord in due course. But don't go worrying about this too much, as when they do actually raise them, more often than not, it is usually only when they are using them against another fish.
Well, I hope that my (even longer!) post helps answer some of your questions, and if you are not sure about anything else, please don't hesitate to ask.
Emma
Don't worry about the long post, it is better that you have thought to seek out some advice before you start keeping Clown Loaches.
The tank that you propose is a little small for Clown Loaches, really you would be better off starting them out in something a bit more spacious (maybe the 4ft tank you were hoping to move them into later on?). Clowns can grow quickly given the right conditions, and small tanks can stunt their growth. Also they are very sensitive fish, and really the less times you have to move them on to a bigger tank the better. You should bear in mind that eventually they will require a tank around 6ft x 2ft x 2ft at the very least. They can attain over 12" (30cm) and are a very stocky and powerful fish and at that size that require a lot of swimming space.
With regards to filtration, the more you have, the better. Clowns are river fish and so like good clean water with a large amount of flow. External cannister filters are usually your best bet, as they have a lot more space for media, do not take up any room in the tank, and can be serviced outside of the aquarium (so you don't disturb/stress your fish too much). Unfortunately I am not familiar with the type of filter that you mentioned, but additional powerheads are a good idea, to help oxygenate the water and provide a nice strong current.
The temperature that you suggest is a little on the high side, I would aim for about 82F (28C) if at all possible, given your warm location!
With regards to decor, I would personally recommend that you use a fine sand substrate which will not cause any damage to the Clown loaches sensitive barbel area when they forage around for food. Bogwood is a very good choice, as your loaches will love hiding underneath it. Just avoid any rocks that are sharp (such as lava rock) and anything that you are not sure is inert. You will probably get away with some plants such as Java Fern, Anubias sp, Cryptocorynes etc whilst the loaches are small, but take it from me, a group of very large specimens will trash most plants after a short time!
Five Clown loaches is a good starting point, but if you keep them in a spacious tank, you should consider keeping a few more than this as they are remarkably social creatures, and you will get to see some wonderful natural behaviour. However, one point bearing in mind is that Clowns really should not be the first fish added to your tank, they do best in mature systems. So you should slowly stock with any other fish you plan to keep in there, then add the Clowns at a later date. I know there are some people who probably keep Clowns in the same tank as an arrowana, but personally I would be a little concerned they might end up on it's dinner menu, given it's deceptively capacious mouth.
Is your water of a pH of 6.5 already? If so, this will be ideal for keeping loaches, and you wouldn't need to interfere with it too much. Their natural waters are soft and acidic, and although they will tolerate slightly harder water, they will thrive in the aforementioned conditions. If your pH is higher, you can add peat or a softener pillow to your filter, but by far and away the easiest (and most hassle free way of doing it) is to use RO water.
It is a good idea to use a worming treatment on your loaches as they can be prone to Chronic Wasting Syndrome (but do check the instructions on the medication thoroughly as Clowns react very badly to a lot of treatments, and sometimes half doses etc are needed). Levamisole hydrochloride is the preferred treatment among many loach keepers, so it may be worth you sourcing some of that. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the Parasite Clear treatment that you mentioned, but someone else on here might know more about it. There would be no need to dip your loaches in salt, and a sudden exposure to it could do them much more harm than good.
Again, others may have different opinions on this, but I would not treat for whitespot if you haven't actually seen evidence that it is present. As I mentioned earlier on, Clowns are very sensitive fish and do not appreciate exposure to treatments - treating whitespot for the sake of treating, when there might not even be a problem there will not be appreciated. Just make sure that they are caught, transported, and acclimatised to your tank in the least stressful manner as is possible, then keep a close eye on them over the settling in period to make sure they are all ok.
You will need to carry out regular water changes to keep the nitrates down and to keep your loaches in good health. Ideally this should be around 20% twice a week.
The size of fish you opt for is up to you. Clowns are not bothered what sizes their companions are, just that they have plenty of them! I have a huge range of different sized Clowns in my tank, from 3.5" up to 11.5", and they all socialise together. After a while, a pecking order is established, with the loach that is quite obviously in charge known as the Alpha. If you do want to purchase the 5" ones, you definitely need a bigger tank than the 36" one you talked about. They are very fast-swimming fish when they want to be, and that size loach will need a bit more room to swim around in.
You would be very unlucky to find that a loach gets it's spines caught in your net, as it doesn't actually happen very often when they are netted correctly in a calm manner. If it does happen, holding the net material very taught will usually cause the fish to free itself. In the worst case scenario, you would have to cut the net carefully with a pair of scissors, leaving a small square of net around the spine. This should then work it's way loose of it's own accord in due course. But don't go worrying about this too much, as when they do actually raise them, more often than not, it is usually only when they are using them against another fish.
Well, I hope that my (even longer!) post helps answer some of your questions, and if you are not sure about anything else, please don't hesitate to ask.
Emma
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
thanks for the reply!
the filter i was planning to use is essentially a powerhead, with its output split into two. one goes into aerating the tank, and the other is pump up to a filter box that lies on top of the tank. So its essentially a canister that is located on top of the tank. Its actually easier to maintain than a canister, coz you dont even need to switch it off to replace, say the cotton wool.
if i were to use a fine sand substrate, about how high should the powerhead inlet be to prevent sand from being sucked in? also, maintenance is a bit difficult for sand beds, would round pebbles also be ok?
re. the tank setup, actually the tank would be cycled, but on the day the loaches arrive, i would be removing the tinfoil barbs, which poo a lot so would definitely be higher bioload compared to the loaches.
my pH is around neutral, but i normally add blackwater extract (for the aro) to bring it down to 6.5... the aro is actually smaller than the loaches, but of course its growth rate is much higher.
i think i may have to go with the small ones then, coz the upgrade has to wait for a few months...
thanks!
the filter i was planning to use is essentially a powerhead, with its output split into two. one goes into aerating the tank, and the other is pump up to a filter box that lies on top of the tank. So its essentially a canister that is located on top of the tank. Its actually easier to maintain than a canister, coz you dont even need to switch it off to replace, say the cotton wool.
if i were to use a fine sand substrate, about how high should the powerhead inlet be to prevent sand from being sucked in? also, maintenance is a bit difficult for sand beds, would round pebbles also be ok?
re. the tank setup, actually the tank would be cycled, but on the day the loaches arrive, i would be removing the tinfoil barbs, which poo a lot so would definitely be higher bioload compared to the loaches.
my pH is around neutral, but i normally add blackwater extract (for the aro) to bring it down to 6.5... the aro is actually smaller than the loaches, but of course its growth rate is much higher.
i think i may have to go with the small ones then, coz the upgrade has to wait for a few months...
thanks!
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Emma Turner
- Posts: 8901
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:07 pm
- Location: Peterborough, UK
- Contact:
Hi again!
I don't think I've come across a filter like that, so maybe others who are familiar with it will comment on it later. Does it have a good flow rate, and is there room for a good amount of biological media?
Sand is not difficult to maintain at all, in fact it is easier than gravel, as any crap just sits on the surface (unlike gravel where it gets in between all the grains where you can't see it). When you do a partial water change, just use a length of hose to siphon the water out, and at the same time move the hose a few cm above the surface of the sand. This will take the crap out with the water. Nice and easy, no messing around with gravel vacuums. You might loose a tiny bit of sand when doing this, but once you get used to the distance you need to hold the hose, it will be a negligable amount.
Emma
I don't think I've come across a filter like that, so maybe others who are familiar with it will comment on it later. Does it have a good flow rate, and is there room for a good amount of biological media?
Sand is not difficult to maintain at all, in fact it is easier than gravel, as any crap just sits on the surface (unlike gravel where it gets in between all the grains where you can't see it). When you do a partial water change, just use a length of hose to siphon the water out, and at the same time move the hose a few cm above the surface of the sand. This will take the crap out with the water. Nice and easy, no messing around with gravel vacuums. You might loose a tiny bit of sand when doing this, but once you get used to the distance you need to hold the hose, it will be a negligable amount.
Emma
East of the Sun, West of the Moon.
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Martin Thoene
- Posts: 11186
- Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:38 am
- Location: Toronto.....Actually, I've been on LOL since September 1998
Agree with everything that Emma is saying libingboy. Welcome to LOL by the way. I tried to find info on these overhead filters. I couldn't find a picture, but I did find this article from The Straits Times which you may or may not be aware of:
http://www.arowanaclub.com/ClubArticles/Pumps/Pump1.htm
If you intend to keep Clowns and an Arowana together you're going to have to upsize eventually anyway. Better to do it sooner than later and avoid stunting or damaging fins on the Arowana.
I actually found a picture on the Arowana Club site of a BIG Asian Arowana kept with Cherry Barbs!
Martin.
http://www.arowanaclub.com/ClubArticles/Pumps/Pump1.htm
If you intend to keep Clowns and an Arowana together you're going to have to upsize eventually anyway. Better to do it sooner than later and avoid stunting or damaging fins on the Arowana.
I actually found a picture on the Arowana Club site of a BIG Asian Arowana kept with Cherry Barbs!
Martin.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
thanks for the replies. There are actually two types of overhead filters. The first type is powered by a motor outside the tank, and the second type is powered by a powerhead. There is minimal chance of a powerhead overheating, and it is always possible to buy an eheim powerhead of suitable flow rate to change the powerhead supplied with the filter box.
Actually, the arowana is only 4 inches right now, so putting him in a 125 makes it much more difficult for him to hunt for food, not to mention that the filtration of a 125 might overpower such a small fish.
i was wondering whether a 36" would be ok for the 4 5" clowns for 3-6 months? my local lfs has had 4 of them in a very small tank (floor area of 5 gallon tank, if i had to guess), and although they look healthy right now, they might not be for long, since they're housed with red tail gouramis (very greedy eaters, plus a bit aggressive too).
anybody use a python for waterchanges? i was wondering what i could do to the python to use it for tanks with sand on the bottom.
Actually, the arowana is only 4 inches right now, so putting him in a 125 makes it much more difficult for him to hunt for food, not to mention that the filtration of a 125 might overpower such a small fish.
i was wondering whether a 36" would be ok for the 4 5" clowns for 3-6 months? my local lfs has had 4 of them in a very small tank (floor area of 5 gallon tank, if i had to guess), and although they look healthy right now, they might not be for long, since they're housed with red tail gouramis (very greedy eaters, plus a bit aggressive too).
anybody use a python for waterchanges? i was wondering what i could do to the python to use it for tanks with sand on the bottom.
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