Water changes? :\

[WhtDragn101]

The reason its said not to overdose prime is that it can possibly reduce oxygen levels because of its ammonia removing component, and its somewhat expensive. Also, the bottle specifies that you should use the full dosage if adding water directly to the tank. I suppose this gives it a better chance of detoxifying before it can affect the fish in any way.

[chefkeith]

Really there is so little chlorine in the tap water that you don't need to add much dechlore, if any at all. The chlorine has probably gassed off or has lost all it's bacterial killing potential once it reaches the faucet.

You can get a chlorine/chloramine test kit to double check. Play it safe if you don't test the water though, be sure to add a little dechlor when filling the tank back up.

[pedzola]

wow that water report is sweet! Thanks!

[crazy loaches]

Seachem recomends dosing for the entire tank volume when do a pwc and dosing in-tank. They say that Prime will be used up by the organics in the system, if there is any truth to that I dont know. On another forum this question regularly comes up and eveyone always says its no big deal to add water to your tank and dose dechlor into the tank at the same time, but for the whole tank volume. I just brought up a post not to long ago chalenging this thought, that if you only changing a portion of water that the chlorine levels will be very low. For example in my case were my new tank setup will be doing daily 10% changes that would be way over 10X overdose daily of Prime. I dont think so.

Here is a quote from Seachem: "DIRECTIONS: Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL). This removes approximately 0.8 mg/L ammonia, 1.2 mg/L chloramine, or 3.3 mg/L chlorine. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose."

FWIW I wouldnt bother trying to dose based on capsizes... for one thing I dont know if all their caps are the same size - they have made that mistake with other of their products like excel. Just get some appropriate measuring spoons or graduated eye droppers or syringes.

[pedzola]

Any idea where I could find such instruments?

As a mild perfectionist I find the cap-measuring to be frustrating at best.

Thanks!

[chefkeith]

Prime must of weakened their formula since I last purchased a bottle. I've been making my own dechlore for the last few years. I bought 2 jars of Sodium Thiosulfate for about $20, which should last me about 15 years.
I only use Prime when I think there might be a water quality problem. Otherwise I don't care for all the other additives it has. It smells rather nasty too.

[crazy loaches]

Prime must of weakened their formula since I last purchased a bottle. I've been making my own dechlore for the last few years. I bought 2 jars of Sodium Thiosulfate for about $20, which should last me about 15 years.
I only use Prime when I think there might be a water quality problem. Otherwise I don't care for all the other additives it has. It smells rather nasty too.

Thats a good method. I've been debating the same but havent looked in to where I can get Sodium Thiosulfate by itself. Whats your source? Is it a liquid or powder? But what I am proposing for my new two bigger tanks I'll be setting up is a auto water change system that might use a simple aging tank that aerates the water for 24hrs to off gas the chlorine without having to add anything to the water. Of course this will only work if my water co sticks with chlorine and doesnt decide all the sudden to use chloramines.

[crazy loaches]

Any idea where I could find such instruments?

As a mild perfectionist I find the cap-measuring to be frustrating at best.

Thanks!

Try doing a google search for measuring syringe, or nutrient syringe, or hydroponics syringe, for examples. Most I see are 60ml so getting just a few ml might be hard, like this one: http://www.4hydroponics.com/nutrients/syringe.asp I have a smaller 20ml one that came with liquid antibiotics for our son (infant antibiotics are liquid). You might take a look at your local pharmacy perhaps. or just use kitchen measuring spoons (1 tsp = 5ml).

[chefkeith]

I bought my sodium thiosulfate from -
http://www.chemistrystore.com/sodium_thiosulfate.htm

I ordered 2- 2lb jars. Shipping cost was about $13.

It comes in a pellet like size.

[Fishlover888]

First of all, Over dose Prime is not a good idea. I think you are safe for double the normal dosage. After that, your fish will not like it, especially if they are sensitive fish like fry or discus. I change about 44g of water each time and I use about 1 and 1/2 cap full.

2. If you are going to add water to the tank and add Prime, you should use the whole tank water as the dosage. Add 1/2 of the amount before start and 1/2 after. I really don't like this way.

3. The best way is to have a storage tank, like a trash can or somehting that can hold the amount of your normal water change (maybe a bit more if you ever need a larger amount water change quickly). Have some tube ready and a pump. I bought 2 pythons and use one for drain out the water, one to hook up with a pump so I can pump the water into the tank. This way you can treat the water first and have a better control of the water temp too. Remember, you should match the source water temp and tank water temp. Sudden drop of water temp is known to cause ick!

4. I'm not sure Prime will remove nitrates. If you have high nitrates in the source water, you may have to do something else to remove it. 20 mpp maybe OK for some fish, not for other.

HTH

[chefkeith]

The dosage directions for Prime are very bleak. It takes no consideration to the chlorine or chloramine ppm of the tap water added to the tank. In other words, the directions are as bleak as a cake recipe that says to add 2 eggs with No consideration if they are medium eggs, large eggs, xtra large eggs, or jumbo eggs. It's best to do the math of the how much chlorine or chloramine is actually added to the tank during a water change, then base the dosage size off of that.


btw, sudden temperature drops during water changes will not cause ich. That is a long running myth. Ich was already present on the fishes gills. The drop in water temp stresses the fish and allows the parasite to attack other parts of the fishes body.

Nitrates of 20ppm is very acceptable for fish if it's 20 ppm from the tap or if it's added manually via fertilizers.
Nitrates at these levels do not neccessarily harm fish, it's other pollutants that migrate with the accumilation of nitrates that harm fish. Those pollutants are known as dissolved and suspended organics. This is what bacteria thrive on. Tanks high in organics and bacteria will usually be low in oxygen also. This combination makes it unhealthy for fish to live in. Add some fast growing plants if you want the nitrates/organics lowered. Water changes are even better.

[crazy loaches]

Actually I think the directions on prime are better than most. They actually say how many ppm of chlorine, chloromine, and ammonia the standard dose treats. They also state for low conentration you can use half dose, and for strong concentration to use double dose. With that in mind is one reason I will not treat for the whole tank volume when I do pwc. To do so would be to dose for almost 15X the amount of chlorine I actually have, and that would be about 500G worth of tank water daily. From what I have read they no longer claim that it removes nitrate, but it can detoxify ammonia and nitrite, and they say in an emergency a 5X dose may be added to reduce these.

I need to find out if prime or any other dechlor can be diluted in water and held in a storage container for a couple weeks without loosing its abilites (considering that its dilluted ofcourse). Or if anyone has any other ideas on how to auto dose dechlor I am all ears. Will more than likely just use an again tank to gas off the chlorine, but an aging tank does add a lot of bulk, more parts to fail, and some extra cost, and my current plan is to see how easily and cheaply an auotmated water change system can be made (K.I.S.S.) so whatever I can eliminate I will, its just a matter of finding the best way to handle the chlorine.

[Curtis]

You could use something like this CO AP510 Triple Action Water Filter Model 55922-02 I know someone that uses to to remove chlorine from their water supply for an automatic water change system.

[crazy loaches]

Yes there are many choices like that. But that is not what I am trying to do. I am trying to see how cheaply it can be done for one thing, and those filters are anything but cheap. A simple aging tank would be far cheaper and wont ever need a new cartridge. An inline carbon filter may make it simpler though, and take up a lot less room. There are cheaper ones out there than that $170 one too. But its been a subject of debate on how reliable carbon is for removing chlorine. And of course it would require new cartridges from time to time (additional ongoing cost, and extra work). Hmmm. Another advantage of the aging tank was also to bring cold water up to room temp. Not that I have discounted an inline filter yet...

[chefkeith]

I built a continuous drip water change system mostly out of old parts I had laying around.
To run the system-
I top-off a 95g reservoir tank every 2-3 days with fresh tap water, add dechlore, then let the system do the rest of the work. The system uses an overflow to remove water from the main tanks. I only run it about 8 hours per day though. I guess the key to the system is the 95g tank that I sacrificed.

I have some detailed info on it in this thread (with pics)-
http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... c&start=30