Can clowns tolerate a ph of 4.5 ?

[mikev]

I'm not sure it is a good idea to put antibiotics into the tank with malfunctioning biofilter... you may totally wipe it out. OTOH, fin rot may go away by itself if the water is good.

mistergreen, she said above it was an old tank, old enough for the old-tank-syndrome. I think adding some kind of buffering is the first thing to try... it is just confusing since kH is low but not zero. May it be that the tank does not have enough circulation and this is somehow relevant? May it be that kH=3 was measured incorrectly or after a water change when some buffering came from tap?

[ckk125]

fin rot can be caused by many things..

For this case, it is more like bacterial infection. That would be the best thing to do.

IT will wipe out the bacteria..but with daily water changes to keep the ammonia down, it can be done.

[clownygirl]

I use a BOYU power filter (2000ltr per hour). The photo that I uploaded does not show the air circulation because I had not attached it at that time.

The present filtration and air circulation is quite adequate...trust me. Infact I think it may be too much, but I am not changing anything now.

This new BOYU has replaced the older ATMAN power filter (1200ltrs per hour).

On a more positive note, the clowns are looking better….I know these are all subjective inferences and based on my own personal assessment of the situation. The skin looks better and the fin rot seems to be healing….kind of. No meds have been added as I will be away for 5 days and just the regular water changes are happening.

Once I am back on Sunday evening I will check the ph and kh once again and re-evaluate the situation. I will post updated pics once I am back.

A friend will come over and feed the fishes in my absence. I have instructed the friend on the proper feeding portions. All I can now do is keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

I want to thank you all for your help..I appreciate it.

[ckk125]

The filtration does not depend on water flow...but filter media....

[clownygirl]

Chen,

The media is a combination of sponge and ceramic rings. Should I replace the ceramic rings with sponge?

Now that you mentioned...the sponge is quite small compared to the size and flow of the filter....

I just uploaded an old video of my one of my sick clowns:

http://s35.photobucket.com/albums/d152/ ... CF2792.flv

[revhead]

Hi Clowny. Did i read that you rinse you filter material weekly ? This is not necessary as by rinsing too often you may be impeding the growth of the filters necessary beneficial bacteria.. if your tank smells anything but 'earthen' it is most likely caused by anaerobic spots in your substrate. Imo, forget the tests for now. Deep vacuum the substrate leaving no spot unturned, change plenty of water, possibly over several days but leave your filter 'as is'. Get to the root of the smell, remedy that & other parameters should naturally follow.

[clownygirl]

Just got back from my 5 day vacation and here are the readings:

Ph = 4.5
Ammonia = 0.1
Kh= 1

The clowns look no better, nor worse.
I am going to do a 25% water change. As suggested I will not clean the filter media and do a thorough gravel vac.

Request then you to please take a look at the video that I have posted and let me know what you think is affecting the clowns.

I will get myself some shells to help create buffering (increase ph) in the tank. If I cannot get my hands on shells I will resort to baking soda.

[Diana]

I would be doing a daily or every other day water change. With each water change add a little bit more baking soda.
When I have added baking soda I found the 1 teaspoon (5 ml) added to a 30 gallon tank (120 liters) raised the KH by 3 degrees.
Translated to your tank, and given that you do NOT want to raise it 3 degrees all at once, but you do want to see some effect, I would add 5 ml to your tank, and measure the KH after it has circulated for a few minutes. Dissolve the baking soda in a bucket and add this back with the rest of the water change. Test again in a few hours. Whatever is removing the KH is likely still at work, and it will probably be gone until we get to the root of the problem.
Other sources of carbonates can be found that do not have sodium in them. Adding all the coral sand, shells, and so on are a slow way to add carbonates, and you are not likely to see a big jump in the readings (This is good).

For a Mbuna tank I would be concerned about low KH and low pH. They prefer alkaline, hard water. pH at least 7.5-8.0, KH well over 10, approaching 20 degrees. I would change the substrate to coral sand, and decorate with limestone based rocks.

Can you get a test for GH, too?

[clownygirl]

Thanks Diana for the suggestions.
I had a few questions regarding coral sand. Will coral sand be safe for clowns?
Should I buy the ones that are sold for marine setups? They are the only packaged version of coral sand I have seen at my LFS.

Will the sand be smooth and polished?
Can I replace all my OLD gravel with Coral sand?

Won't that increase kh to dangerous levels?

Also I guess this will increase ph. Will it increase ph to 8. If so, then will the clowns be OK with a ph of 8?

The Sera kh kit I am using is not very user-friendly.
It instructs me to add the regent one drop at a time and wait to see if the color changes from blue to green to yellow.

The problem is that the moment I put one drop, the color becomes light yellow. It never changes from blue to green to yellow. Upon adding additional drops of the regent the color becomes a darker yellow.

Am I following the instruction correctly?

[clownygirl]

16 of the 19 clowns are looking good, 3 of them still look pretty bad. The PH finally came back to 7.0, I added some sea shells to the tank and the ph shot up in 48 hours, not a lot of shells though.

I also got myself some bacterial medicine - it's called Azoo Bacterial treatment and contains Methylene Blue and Acrinol. Has anybody used this in the past and how safe is it for clowns? Should I dose the entire tank or quarantine the sick clowns?

[Diana]

You are using the KH test correctly. There is so close to no carbonates in the water that just one drop immediately goes to the end point of yellow.

[clownygirl]

I got myself a 120ml bottle of AZOO BACTERIA TREATER in liquid form. It contains Methylene Blue and Acrinol. I have attached the url for your reference

http://www.azoo.com.tw/azoo_en/modules. ... w&bkid=282

Three of the clowns who had cloudy eyes and fin rot have been put into a small quarantine tank where they are being medicated. Some signs of recovery are present (cloudy eyes seem to have cleared up and fin rot seems to have stopped). The instructions provided by Azoo mention that treatment should be continued for 3 days in a row.

The new problem that seems to have surfaced is that a couple of new clowns are showing signs of fin rot and cloudy eye in the main tank. Should I medicate the whole tank (79gal) ? the disease seems to be infectious….

[Icewall42]

I'm going to state y own opinion based on my experience.

I've had two fini issues with my clowns--an unknown disease that looks frighteningly like what your clowns have, and actual fin rot. Both looks very different in my opinion. The unknown disease primarily affected the tailfins of the clowns, and was a white, ragged appearance that slowly spread into the fins. It was always fatal after a certain point. I lost some 4-5 clowns to it, and only saved the ones that were barely infected by putting anti-biotic and Super Sulfa (or something like it) into the tank. If the clown was infected for too long, it died even if the white stuff was eradicated.

Fin rot looks like ragged, eaten fins without the whiteness or clouding of the fins. I've dealt with this too, and simply used a minor antibiotic like Melafix to prevent further damage. Fin rot isn't necessarily life-threatening, but the water quality MUST be improved for it to heal and to prevent it from worsening.

I could be wrong... I'm using my own experience here. But the fin issues look more similar to the unknown disease I described much more so than simple fin rot. Also, the other symptoms of the fish (the cloudy eye) represent a very serious need for antibiotics, but it looks like you've got that covered.

[mikev]

The new problem that seems to have surfaced is that a couple of new clowns are showing signs of fin rot and cloudy eye in the main tank. Should I medicate the whole tank (79gal) ? the disease seems to be infectious….

You quite obviously need to medicate the rest of the fish, especially that you have a med that works, but you have a problem.

If your main tank is planted, Meth Blue will do some damage. Some plants can withstand it (Swords, IME), some are killed very quickly.

One way is to move all the fish to the qtank, treat them there, and simply let the main tank be without fish for a month..the bacteria will hopefully die out.

hth

[clownygirl]

I do not have any plants in my 79 gallon clown tank. The only reason I am thinking about medicating the whole tank is cause I think the infection may be contagious, also the quarantine tank is just 1 foot in length and I am not comfortable keeping the three 4" clowns in such a small tank.

The only problem that I foresee is that all the beneficial bacteria will get wiped out if I medicate the whole tank....but this may be the only option that I have...especially if the infection is spreading to other clowns in the tank.

Please advice.