loachorgy,
my advise is that you do 2 consecutive water changes (2x 90%) right now. The bacteria bloom hints that something is wrong with your tank. The water change would help with possible parasites too by eliminating many of them from the tank.
The stress caused by the water change is IMHO neglectable when compared to the possible benefits (under the condition that your problems aren't caused by your tap water).
-Connor
RIP ALPHA LOACH!
Moderator: LoachForumModerators
mikev, i added 4 snails for a snack about a week ago or about 4 days before i started noticing all these things. i think the loaches ate the snails and his could be what caused the velvet. it is the only thing i can think of that would have been added to the tank. only other instance would be this. the new shrimp we fed the loaches had spirulina in it. I am not sure what spirulina is but i don't know if it woud cause this.
icewall. i don't know what meth blue is? i don't think the lfs has this. i just went and didn't see anything called this.
Emma here is the picture of what it looked exactly like on the fish skin.
http://www.lincolnbeach.com/personal/clowns/
is this not velvet? if so then i treated the tank for velvet.
i have done some really large water changes. i just treated all the water. should i do more water changes?
here is what i am going to do.
I AM GOING TO LET THESE MEDICINES DO THEIR THING OVERNIGHT. THEN DO A 50% WATER CHANGE TOMMOROW MORNING.
does this sound ok? not shouting just making it easier to read. i just want to allow the medicine to at least try to get rid of this velvet.
i have one loach really bloated and others are acting crazy. the cories are scratching their skin, the pleco is scratching the skin.
i have done 50% then 25% three days ago. then 25% two times the next day, then 10% two times. should i do more water changes?
icewall. i don't know what meth blue is? i don't think the lfs has this. i just went and didn't see anything called this.
Emma here is the picture of what it looked exactly like on the fish skin.
http://www.lincolnbeach.com/personal/clowns/
is this not velvet? if so then i treated the tank for velvet.
i have done some really large water changes. i just treated all the water. should i do more water changes?
here is what i am going to do.
I AM GOING TO LET THESE MEDICINES DO THEIR THING OVERNIGHT. THEN DO A 50% WATER CHANGE TOMMOROW MORNING.
does this sound ok? not shouting just making it easier to read. i just want to allow the medicine to at least try to get rid of this velvet.
i have one loach really bloated and others are acting crazy. the cories are scratching their skin, the pleco is scratching the skin.
i have done 50% then 25% three days ago. then 25% two times the next day, then 10% two times. should i do more water changes?
Last edited by LoachOrgy on Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All your loaches are belong to me!
It doesn't really look like velvet to me... I've had it once before, and it wasn't really patchy. It was more of a thick, grey fuzz on the fish's sides (the afflicted fish survived, it was my 11 year old alpha). That looks like some other disease, almost certainly bacterial, though parasites are a possibility.
Methylene Blue is a heavy duty anti-bacterial bath. If you try it, you make up a bath separate from the tank, and bathe the fish in that. At least, that's what I think you're supposed to do.
Methylene Blue is a heavy duty anti-bacterial bath. If you try it, you make up a bath separate from the tank, and bathe the fish in that. At least, that's what I think you're supposed to do.
unfortunately big al's just closed and it is too far away anyway. i have to do a water change in the morning. otherwise i have to work. so i won't be able to get any of these chemicals until later in the day. i can't get any of those chemicals until late tommorow.
emma, it says the chilodonella is usually treated by malachite in one dose. i used it in the ich x but only did a half dose as of now.
THANK YOU ALL FOR SUCH GREAT INFORMATION. JUST WISH I COULD HAVE FOUND OUT 2 DAYS AGO!----I really do appreciate everything!
emma, it says the chilodonella is usually treated by malachite in one dose. i used it in the ich x but only did a half dose as of now.
THANK YOU ALL FOR SUCH GREAT INFORMATION. JUST WISH I COULD HAVE FOUND OUT 2 DAYS AGO!----I really do appreciate everything!
All your loaches are belong to me!
loach #4 is now coming up to me at the front of the tank. hes next. i can see his black streaks looking very patchy. he has bloating and it appears that the banding of colors on the expanded stomache appear to look like dots. i guess all i can do now is pray for them.
i am going to upload a pic of the loach with the bloating soon. poor guy is double his size. hes been swimming with his body vertically inside the treasure chest for close to 2 days now non stop.
i am going to upload a pic of the loach with the bloating soon. poor guy is double his size. hes been swimming with his body vertically inside the treasure chest for close to 2 days now non stop.
All your loaches are belong to me!
Yeap, snails can bring in all kinds of nice things. If this was the only recent snail-feeding you may be able to figure out what you got by the parasite life cycle: 1 week probably is too fast for ich but would be enough for smaller protozoa.LoachOrgy wrote:mikev, i added 4 snails for a snack about a week ago or about 4 days before i started noticing all these things. i think the loaches ate the snails and his could be what caused the velvet.
In all cases, protozoan infections are treated with
Malachite Green
Acriflavine
Salt
Formalin
These are the four main drugs, combinations are usually more effective.
Meth Blue is a great drug *for other situations*, it is not that useful against protozoan infections. Still, you should have it on hand. You can get it cheaply here:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/214325/product.web
the same company also sells several other similarly packages useful substances: acriflavine, permanganate, mal green,... All have their uses, and imo one should have all of them on hand, esp. that they don't go bad.
im treating malachite green now. mike thanks. here is what i think. i placed 20 something snails in my other tank and no problems at all. if anything. the loaches either ate the snails and something happened. or the sand that is in the tank trapped some kind of waste and it developed.
as i cleaned the tank i noticed one of the plants had some wrotting black roots. i removed that plant and cleaned all debris.
i don't know if that would do it but that is something i did notice.
the only other changes in the past month besides the move is that the newer shrimp has spirulina in it. thanks for the info.
i have a rena x3 i am going to hookup soon. once the treatment is done. i have no filter media in it but i can set it up. i was going to upgrade to a 120 but i guess now i can hold off on that because it looks like all the bigger loaches are going to die.
i checked big al's they don't carry meth blue or that bath. i ordered it overnight on a that link you sent me with meth blue and the dip. hopefully it will get here in time. wow for 15$ worth of fish i have dropped about 150$ on them for meds and tests in the last two days. i really love the guys...
as i cleaned the tank i noticed one of the plants had some wrotting black roots. i removed that plant and cleaned all debris.
i don't know if that would do it but that is something i did notice.
the only other changes in the past month besides the move is that the newer shrimp has spirulina in it. thanks for the info.
i have a rena x3 i am going to hookup soon. once the treatment is done. i have no filter media in it but i can set it up. i was going to upgrade to a 120 but i guess now i can hold off on that because it looks like all the bigger loaches are going to die.
i checked big al's they don't carry meth blue or that bath. i ordered it overnight on a that link you sent me with meth blue and the dip. hopefully it will get here in time. wow for 15$ worth of fish i have dropped about 150$ on them for meds and tests in the last two days. i really love the guys...
All your loaches are belong to me!
KH is so low that this is what is allowing the pH to drop so fast.
I would add an small amount of Baking Soda to the new water, dissolve it well and test. 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons will raise the KH by about 3 degrees, or almost 60 ppm. I would start with just 1 teaspoon for your larger tank, and see what the KH and pH are after 24 hours.
Medicating the tank is the more important thing to do right now, so lets deal with the pH issues later.
Each time you try a different medicine, I would do 2 water changes of 50%, separated by a couple of hours or half a day, and add fresh Activated Carbon to the filter. Let the tank sit for 24 hours with the fresh carbon, then remove that carbon and go ahead with the next medicine. Do not combine medicines unless both labels say it is OK to use with the other medicine.
IF you think it is velvet, turn off the lights; velvet is somewhat photosynthetic.
Many medicines will reduce the amount of oxygen in the tank. Be sure the water is circulating well, add a bubbler or powerhead to help if needed.
Spirulina is a form of algae that is high in vitamins. Are you referring to the frozen Brine Shrimp with Spirulina? I have fed this to my fish without any problems like this showing up.
Where did you get the snails? Pond snails? Ramshorn? Some other sort?
I would add an small amount of Baking Soda to the new water, dissolve it well and test. 1 teaspoon per 30 gallons will raise the KH by about 3 degrees, or almost 60 ppm. I would start with just 1 teaspoon for your larger tank, and see what the KH and pH are after 24 hours.
Medicating the tank is the more important thing to do right now, so lets deal with the pH issues later.
Each time you try a different medicine, I would do 2 water changes of 50%, separated by a couple of hours or half a day, and add fresh Activated Carbon to the filter. Let the tank sit for 24 hours with the fresh carbon, then remove that carbon and go ahead with the next medicine. Do not combine medicines unless both labels say it is OK to use with the other medicine.
IF you think it is velvet, turn off the lights; velvet is somewhat photosynthetic.
Many medicines will reduce the amount of oxygen in the tank. Be sure the water is circulating well, add a bubbler or powerhead to help if needed.
Spirulina is a form of algae that is high in vitamins. Are you referring to the frozen Brine Shrimp with Spirulina? I have fed this to my fish without any problems like this showing up.
Where did you get the snails? Pond snails? Ramshorn? Some other sort?
38 tanks, 2 ponds over 4000 liters of water to keep clean and fresh.
Happy fish keeping!
Happy fish keeping!
I don't know if that fish pictured has dropsy, but it certainly looks to me like some internal disease or parasite is causing fluid buildup in the loach. That's a very ahrd issue to deal with... I don't have any experience with that. If that was the only symptom, I'd say some sort of dropsy medicine might help, but the heavier meds you are currently using seem to be the best bet. They are dangerous ones... but it is definitely time to try them.
I really hope they help! And yes, meth blue is good to have on hand.
I really hope they help! And yes, meth blue is good to have on hand.
well i ordered the heavier meds but they won't get here until thursday. the lfs doesn't carry them.
here is an update. vincent died this morning. he looks like his skin is peeling as well. a few red spots on the stomache as well. there is also some sand on near the tail as well so disregard that. the skin felt extra slimey. this was evident in all specimen. so it does sound just like what emma was describing.
this sux. 50% mortality
one good thing is that the water seems 100% clear compared to last night even with the meds in the water. i can actually see through the entire tank.
i don't mean to be morbid i just want to find out what is going on. this is why i am posting pictures of all the dead fish. sorry to bring this sadness on everyone!
here is an update. vincent died this morning. he looks like his skin is peeling as well. a few red spots on the stomache as well. there is also some sand on near the tail as well so disregard that. the skin felt extra slimey. this was evident in all specimen. so it does sound just like what emma was describing.
this sux. 50% mortality
one good thing is that the water seems 100% clear compared to last night even with the meds in the water. i can actually see through the entire tank.
i don't mean to be morbid i just want to find out what is going on. this is why i am posting pictures of all the dead fish. sorry to bring this sadness on everyone!
Last edited by LoachOrgy on Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
All your loaches are belong to me!
Diana,
yes the frozen shrimp with spirulina. also, the snails were obtained from a friends tank. it appears she has no problems in her tank. and the snails were placed in my other tank as well. i have no problems in that tank either. i am holding off on the feeding now. i will do a 50% water change when i get home tonight before i medicate the tank again. if i see symptoms on any other fish, i will dip them in the permagneate solution bath once i get it on thursday. so far i only have one medium sized loach left and 3 smaller loaches. they are all playing and seem sad but playful. they aren't showing signs yet. i have also seen my cories scratching as well. so i am inclined to think this is going to wreak havoc on my tank soon.
after all the observation, it appears that the largest loach i have has resumed responsibility as alpha loach. the loach is leading all other loaches all over the tank and doing the loachy dance like crazy. all loaches are doing the loachy dance along with all the cories. hopefully, they realize i didn't kill their friends.
thanks for all your help everyone.
yes the frozen shrimp with spirulina. also, the snails were obtained from a friends tank. it appears she has no problems in her tank. and the snails were placed in my other tank as well. i have no problems in that tank either. i am holding off on the feeding now. i will do a 50% water change when i get home tonight before i medicate the tank again. if i see symptoms on any other fish, i will dip them in the permagneate solution bath once i get it on thursday. so far i only have one medium sized loach left and 3 smaller loaches. they are all playing and seem sad but playful. they aren't showing signs yet. i have also seen my cories scratching as well. so i am inclined to think this is going to wreak havoc on my tank soon.
after all the observation, it appears that the largest loach i have has resumed responsibility as alpha loach. the loach is leading all other loaches all over the tank and doing the loachy dance like crazy. all loaches are doing the loachy dance along with all the cories. hopefully, they realize i didn't kill their friends.
thanks for all your help everyone.
All your loaches are belong to me!
LO,
Sorry for the continuing problems.
I don't think that frozen shrimp could be the source, and I'm now doubtful that the snails were either.
I think you should try to do a necropsy on the loach that just died (or find a pro who can) to get to the bottom of it. See if internal parasites are a factor. Knowing the cause of bloating will allow you to treat with the right drugs.
BTW, if the internal parasites are indeed the cause, the infection occurred most likely 1-2 months ago. Anything else added at that time?
Sorry for the continuing problems.
I don't think that frozen shrimp could be the source, and I'm now doubtful that the snails were either.
I think you should try to do a necropsy on the loach that just died (or find a pro who can) to get to the bottom of it. See if internal parasites are a factor. Knowing the cause of bloating will allow you to treat with the right drugs.
BTW, if the internal parasites are indeed the cause, the infection occurred most likely 1-2 months ago. Anything else added at that time?
the sand was the last big thing added to the tank. it was several months ago. the tank was moved, but nothing was added to the tank. just moved. i have already disposed of the loach. i guess i should try and freeze the body if this happens again. i just didn't want to let the body sit and rot in the tank. i don't know any pros near me.
All your loaches are belong to me!
When a filter crashes toxins build up in your fish,causing bloating and color loss and bio infections like slime coat issues etc.. Your bio-load is reduced now and your water will clear if your numerous meds don't kill the filter again. This still looks like a water quality caused issue so small frequent water changes to keep stable ph and ammonia in check and do not worry about feeding for a few days as the water will clear much faster with lower waste out put. Stay the course .Huge water changes change the ph drastically from existing conditions and cause stress to already stressed fish that could or has in the past normally taken an extreme change like that when healthy. Whatever your quality of water huge changes move it to far to fast to help.ie 10 -10% water changes over one day is way better than one 100% water change Consistency and improvement are important and changes of over 25% are not inclined to do that.You can not pull a fish from one lake and throw it in another and expect good results. If you regularly change huge amounts of water your fish are used to this cycle and are not affected as it is the ebb and flow of there normal existance with a huge weekly water change and only work for the long term when done on a regular and consistant basis. I wish we all could help you,I am sorry for your losses.
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