clown loaches with (bubble)

[Rocco]

What you need to do is to take a clown loach that has died of this disease to an ichthyologist or a vet that specializes in fish. We don't have those here in the Philippines but I'm sure you 1st worlders have those.

From there, we can find out what is causing it and how to treat it

[shari2]

Rocco's idea is a good one. If it is a tumor, or an encysted parasite the likelihood of a definitive cure is remote unless you know what it is.

The progressive wasting can be a by-product of immunre-compromised fish which leaves them susceptible to a number of issues that healthy fish would naturally fight off.

If it is a parasite of some kind in the muscle tissue and the redness materialized over time that could be a sign of eventual bacterial problems related to the foreign object within the tissue.

The best I could do would be to look around and offer you possibilities for what type of tumor or parasite it could be. Taking it to a vet to be excised would be far more helpful.

[clownloachfan]

well, i would take the dead body to a vet but, how do i go about finding one that specializes in fish? Wouldnt it cost alot of money too?

[shari2]

I'd try googling 'exotic pet+veterinarians+PA' and see what hits you get.
And yes, you could end up spending money. Ask the vet if he does autopsies and what a reasonable fee would be.

You may also try veterinary schools if there are any in your area. They may be willing to check out the fish as part of their 'training' and you might get it done for free.

Failing that, do you have a microscope? I could attempt to locate some internet pics of various possibilities and you could compare. Very un-scientific, but educational none the less.

[clownloachfan]

just googled it. There are two vets about an hour away from my house. No, i do not have a microscope. Maybee i could send the dead bodies too you shari2? haha

[mikev]

well, i would take the dead body to a vet but, how do i go about finding one that specializes in fish? Wouldnt it cost alot of money too?

Very few vets deal with fish, but they do exist.

In the state of NY (where I did check this route, when dealing with another mysterious illness) there seem to be only two. One way to try to find them is by asking other vets if they know someone. Googling may find something too, of course. Finding a "fish vet" in any state will help since they are likely to know each other. (If you decide to go this route, I can try to find the two in NY...I think I still have their names, even if I did not use them.)

The cost is not astronomical, about $100 for consultation+lab, of course, depends on the vet.
Multiple tests/necropsy's may be needed, since even professionals with good equipment may miss the cause first time. [This incidentally happened in my case on the first necropsy, but eventually the case was solved.]. There are ways to improve the chances of successful diagnostics, if you get this far, any pathologist will explain this part.

IMO, the vet approach may be warranted if you are dealing with a particular fish you want to save or a disease that decimates your tanks... not sure it is worth for you.

hth

[loachmom]

The cost is not astronomical, about $100 for consultation+lab, of course, depends on the vet.

$100 for a vet to look at my dead fish IS astronomical to me----but, then again, I am a tightwad.

[clownloachfan]

i would probably not be willing to pay $100. I just thought that since this bubble thing was so common, at least in my area, it would be common everywhere else and there would be a definite cause. I also thought that since it does not kill the fish for 2-3 months, it would be good to buy them and quarintine them while medicating them until they are healthy. I guess i just have to look really hard for good clowns.

[Rocco]

thats one way of putting it. I'd be curious as to what it is though.

What if it suddenly spreads to your other clowns?

I have seen clowns like this over here too. Just today.

[clownloachfan]

Thats the wierd thing about this bubble thing, it does not seem to be contagious at all. When i first started 4 years ago, i bought 3 clowns, they had no bubble. A couple weeks later, i bought 3 more which had this bubble. About 3 months later, the second batch died while the first batch is still living today. I do not know what to think about this. Another thing to add is that i also bought a group of three yoyo loaches. 2 of them were large enuoph so that there pattern did not say yoyo anymore. There was also a small one which had this bubble. It seems like it is a thing that effects botias to me.
by the way, i am not worried about it spreading to my other clowns as it has been 2 years since i have had clowns with the "bubble" symptom

[chefkeith]

I think the bubble was caused by a sudden change of osmotic pressure. There is no telling how much these fish go through from the time they were caught until they they reach their final destination.

The survival rate from the time the fish was caught, to being fully acclimated in the new pet owners tank for is probably less than 20%.

The chain of supply doesn't even know of the term "osmolarity", they probably don't even check for water kh or gh (let alone TDS) when transfering fish from one water source to the next.

[clownloachfan]

if it is osmotic pressure, why does it take three months for them to die from it and plus why would it make them get skinnier and skinnier? Why arent other fish as succeptible to this? Arent dojo loaches really sensitive to this to?

[chefkeith]

If I knew all that I'd be Doc, not chef. Maybe a veternarian could answer.

[mikev]

chefkeith,

sorry, I have to disagree. It is a chronic disease.

Thats the wierd thing about this bubble thing, it does not seem to be contagious at all.

Nothing weird here. Many diseases are not contagious or weakly contagious. This does not say enough about their origin.

Can you give us more information? Everything you can, photos of other clowns, etc, what else you noticed. I'd like to sieve through it....perhaps even show this to some pro's.

$100 for a vet to look at my dead fish IS astronomical to me----but, then again, I am a tightwad.

I've been screamed at by my wife a few times over the disease expenses, a couple of cases took hundredS of dollars and lots of time to investigate. But some cases are worth it.

Really depends on the situation, IMO. If it is your favorite pet, or an unusual fish, I may go an extra mile. If it is simply about getting healthy clowns, the answer may be simple buy from another store and look carefully. [And keep in mind that the bubble may develop later, visual inspection is no guarantee.]

[chefkeith]

Ok, since Mike doesn’t agree with me, I’ll add my 2 cents.

If it was a chronic disease and not transmittable, why would a group of fish that were purchased together have the same problem? IMO, if it's not a genetic defect, then something traumatic happened to the group of fish somewhere along the line.

The bubble to me looks like fluid buildup leading to the gill membranes. When a fish experiences sudden osmotic drops, the body is trying to expel minerals, which may cause gill membranes to explode. If some gill membranes do explode, fluids will build-up in other regions. It may not kill the fish immediately, but it will make the gills work harder. Any future osmotic drop may kill that specific group of fish, while other fish may not be affected at all.

edited- a few words