Kuhlis can be weird

[Wendie]

drool.......................

[Mark in Vancouver]

I was referring to what Mark said really

Thank you, Emma. Your shop sounds lovely, and you're doing a good service to the loaches - which is the point, isn't it?

[Martin Thoene]

Hey MikeV, learn about the properties of Almond leaves.....

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/man ... _Leaf.html

Martin.

[Wendie]

I think that's what saved the 5 kuhlis in the one tank. As soon as I put the Indian Almond Leaf in the tank, they turned the corner and started improving. Their slime layer was peeling off and they were full of red patches of skin at that point. In fact, I do need to change the one in the tank now as it's falling apart.

[mikev]

Hey MikeV, learn about the properties of Almond leaves.....

Martin.

Wow. Thank you. I like the last sentence particulaly. I'll try to find it and test it on my 10g (2 males, one slightly gravid females).

drool.......................

Yeap, me too, straight on the keyboard....

[mikev]

; delete, duplicate

[mikev]

; delete, duplicate

[mikev]

OK, I stopped drooling. The cure was two more khulis, so I'm now up to 19, and probably can be certified clinically insane.

But I could not pass these two...one was the kind I was looking for months: the no-belly variation and i now think it may be a sub-sub-species indeed. The other has strangely shapes stripes, which are orange on one end and yellow on the other. Both are very large, almost certainly both females (well, #1 has a little green tint, so it is kind of certain). and both have a good chance to survive: 6 days at the store and seem quite strong. So we can test the 5-day theory.

(Incidentally, this place treats khulis right: the tank had small gravel, hiding places, and some plants. Still, they said they lost 7 out of 20 within the first 3 days....)

The main reason I'd like to look at cuneovirgata one day is to see what happens with their stripes/patterns. We know that Myersi and CL's develop split stripes or dots when maturing, what about these? Martin, if you happen to read this, do you have any dots on yours? Unfortunately, my only other Khuli are javanicus, and I'm not up to the level of figuring out their stripes

Since this is the generic weird khuli thread: does anyone know the color of the javanicus' eggs?

[Martin Thoene]

Mine look like this Mike............






Cybermeez now owns these.....


Pangio myersi


Then there's two of........

Pangio anguillaris


And some......

Pangio piperata


Gotta luv 'em!

Martin.

[mikev]

Gotta luv 'em!

Very much so. I hope you don't mind me printing some of them and posting on the wall here.

OK, it does not look like they split the bands or develop dots inside the bands (but most myersi don't either -- only some do).

Cybermeez now owns these.....

Amazing. Looks like the same yellow+orange variation I saw for the first time today. Observe that both Cybemeez' khuli and mine have similar stripe pattern, no "teeth" on the bottom, and black reaching pretty low (but mine at least still has a belly). Would be nice to see a couple more like this and see if the similarities continue.

Below are shots of my #2 of today. Sorry for the low quality, I'm not going to bother her until she adjusts.

[Martin Thoene]

Yep, those are P. myersi.

Martin.

[Wendie]

Mine have the dots... those suckers are staying in the back of the tank under the Java fern....

[mikev]

Yep, those are P. myersi.

Yeah, sure. But for me P.myersi is the most interesting loach.
Here is why: given how common they are, how small they are (I can find the space for a hundred if need to) and the variety of the patterns, they are almost perfect for figuring out what the variations may be. Some of them may apply to other loaches.

Here is what we have in terms of variations now:

1. Yellow vs Orange. With CL's orange seems to always become yellow with age; with khulis it is not clear.
2. Yellow bottom/Orange top: does this signify a subspecies/regional variation?
3. Stripes on the belly: same question. I believe some yoyo's have the same feature, so it may not be significant.
4. Total pattern breakdown (I have one like this, but no pic right now, he always hides in the back of the tank).
5. "Burmese drawing pattern" -- this is the likeliest candidate for a subspecies (or more). Unfortunately, I don't have any of these.
6. Dots -- well, this seems to be the sign of maturity, that some khulis have, just like CL's.
.....
already a longer list than one can write for any other loach species, I think.

If we could only breed them, we'd be able to understand this much better.... And (at least to me) this is a nice puzzle to play with....

[mikev]

Here is what I meant by a total pattern breakdown:

http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic.php?u=11130S5RAi&i=779287

This is not my loach or my picture, but it may be the same phenomena as mine. A nice girl for those who seek a bit of variety.... I'll post my male when I can get him in the open, putting khulis into the 65g might have been good for them (fattening is quite serious), but not for photography...

[Martin Thoene]

Whoah! that's a pretty wild pattern Mike. I don't think it's a Pangio myersi though....maybe kuhlii?

Do you have a copy of the Kottellat and Lim paper on Pangio?

If you'd like it I can E-mail you the pdf.

Martin.