Ich infestation ?, help needed

[Mad Duff]

Just thought I would add an update

As far as I was aware I had lost all the clowns but this morning one popped its head out of one of the plant pots and its Stumpy the clown that I was given some months back that is either slightly deformed or stunted, he doesn't look great but he has lasted 2 days longer than any other clowns

I removed the last Gold nugget that was dead this morning but to be honest I thought it would have died days ago and I also euthanized two large Rasboras that were the only fish remaining with any marks or spots on their bodies.

I dosed with "interpet - anti slime and velvet" on Saturday and the redness has certainly gone out of any of the fins and like I have said apart from the two rasboras that I took out this morning all remaining fish look clear.

Full list of lost fish stands at:
18 Clown loach (1" upto 8")
4 Gold nugget plecs 4" upto 9")
Kissing gourami (possible carrier)
African brown knifefish
6 Silver sharks (5" upto 8")
3 Porthole rasboras
2 Rasbora tornieri

I can also recommend Puntius filamentosus as the hardiest fish available, these things must be Teflon coated as well as bomb proof

[KhuliKhilla]

good god - thats total carnage. sorry to hear about all of this Mark.

chin up and think of the restocking fun.

[piggy4]

Hi Mark , i'm a little late here SORRY, i hope you are now making some headway ! i must say if i'm honest this Interpet product has been a real lifesaver , litterally, its possibly the only cure i have confidence in , its probarbly difficult to be sure in your case , as you had already administered other products , its somthing we've all done , PANIC, i think the fact that Interpet slime and velvet , is active for a week is a positive thing , i think some of these Diseases are so virilant, that you need that extra time ! its horrible though , and it does make you feel like packing in ,but you cant , you're in too deep ,ha ha, i guess with all the highs this hobby has , there has to be lows, funnily enough i think Interpet also do a white spot cure, though i've never tried it ! i think cures become a bit personal , and everyone has their own ideas , personally i had a little success with Protazin, but found it to be a slow proccess ! WS3 is good, some say its harsh , and perhaps it is , BUT if it cures and leaves the fish a bit stressed , at least you can work at getting the fish back into condition, a few years ago , i had one of those bloody horrible bouts where the fish were covered in spots/ slime and were also shimmying , and in frustration i overdosed ,with both WS3 and King brittish Velvet cure ,that purple stuff they used to sell , and i got LUCKY, some small B.Dario actually survived this onslought , and grew to be beautiful 4inch adults , i would'nt advise this but had i not done it im convinced they would have perished , no doubt about it ! anyway hope you salvage all you can , lets face it , its probarbly not the first time , and it more than likely will happen again , hopefully Interpet will do the job . GOOD LUCK.
Andy.

[Mad Duff]

good god - thats total carnage. sorry to hear about all of this Mark.

chin up and think of the restocking fun.

I cant wait to get those emperors and histie's into the 7ft and then the search will be on for at least a dozen decent Clowns

Nothing will be added before I get the UV sorted for this tank though and it will probably be a couple of months before I am brave enough to add the Loaches.

We are supposed to be going away next week which at the moment still looks likely as all the remaining fish look fine but if the Clowns had survived and still in trouble the holiday would have been cancelled for sure.

Andy - Thanks for that, it does look like the interpet stuff has made a difference, how much the Protozin an Myxazin did I cant be sure but I think I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel now

[Emma Turner]

How's Stumpy looking, MD? Is he still hanging in there?

Emma

[Mad Duff]

How's Stumpy looking, MD? Is he still hanging in there?

Emma

No unfortunately he passed away during the night

[Emma Turner]

Awwww no, sorry to hear that.

[helen nightingale]

Mark, sorry to hear that . i dont really know what to say, other than i am thinking of you. i hope its all over soon and you can start restocking. best wishes.

[Marcos Mataratzis]

Hi shari,

Mad, do you happen to know what the ingredients are in Myxazin? I've looked all over and still come up empty...

I found some sources that tells some things about it´s composition:

I got this from a Forum:

1) ...don't know if this helps at all but i have used myxazin before to treat w/s in situ. If i remember correctly and don't take this as gospel as it is only from memory the active ingredients are methylene blue and rose anyline...

2) ... OK, the active ingredients in myxazin are Malachite Green and Acriflavine, acriflavine is recommended on one of the other sites as a treatment for this horrible parasite! I will add it but in at a half dose concentration, I will probably re-add salt during the water changes at a low concentration tomorrow too, just to be doubley sure!
Is it safe to carry on adding melafix/pimafix or do you think that would overload the water a bit too much? (http://www.tropicalfishkeeper.com/forum ... php?p=1171)
_________________________________________________________

Curiouslly, I just used that combination of malachite green (copper acetate) + acriflavine on an resistent ich strain on my loaches tank a few months ago as you can read on previous page (with photos).

Also found this image about Mixazin:


Hope this helps!

[mikev]

My 2c on this:

Assume it is malachite green+acriflavine (first quote, with meth blue, does not make much sense -- meth blue is not effective against ich). Now, mal green is the main std anti-ich drug, usually used with a second drug for more effect.
Common combinations are
Mal Green + Formalin (RidIch)
Mal Green + Salt (Nox)
Mal Green + Salt + Acriflavine (Ich Guard)
Now, we see
Mal Green + Acriflavine

This makes certain sense, acriflavine does add some boost, but mostly not against Ich. For things like flex, velvet, true fungus -- yes. For Ich -- very little. Either Salt or Formalin add much more to the efficiency of the drug.

I find this interesting:

I will add it but in at a half dose concentration, I will probably re-add salt during the water changes at a low concentration tomorrow too, just to be doubley sure!

So he has been treating with myxazin+salt?

This makes sense and actually similar to what I did a few times: halfdoze Ich Guard (which already has salt), but then add extra salt. This worked faster than the regular mix.

Another component that provided extra boost was quinine.

The reason why these extra boosts were needed was that the store I got most fish from last year had ich permanently established in their system, so nearly every fish I bought had ich on it. They also had a UV, so Ich was never serious,...and they also periodically put a little meth blue into the system, so eventually they created a real nice resistant strain which was harder and harder to deal with This was very enjoyable since for a while I was winning this game against stronger and stronger ich...but then the darn thing threw a real curve ball and wiped out a qtank.

Anyway, a combination of only Meth Blue and Acriflavine is likely not sufficiently strong for most cases, so your cartoon is very much on target.

[Marcos Mataratzis]

Hi mikev,

those are two diferent posts colected from diferent places. Also found somewhere else a post guessing on malchite green. I tend to belive more on second one.
Anyway, that second one was the exactly combination I used here and finally got rid of ich after other unsuccessful attempts.

meth blue is not effective against ich

Well... According to Gastao Botelho on his book Diseases and treatment of ornamental fishes (page 57) "...quinine salts, sodium cloride or meth blue are also used as baths on ich treatment."

There are also two medicines here in Brazil to get rid of ich that uses meth blue on their composition:

Labcon Ictio: Mal Green + meth blue + copper sulfate + magnesium sulfate + potassium cloride (http://www.labcon.com.br/versoes/ingles ... /ictio.htm)

Labcon Clean: Mal Green + Formalin + copper sulfate + meth blue (http://www.labcon.com.br/versoes/ingles ... a_doce.htm)

Acording to their directions both products can be used to get rid from ich.

[mikev]

Hi Marcos,

I should have said "as the main component".

I suspect that the reason why I've seen no Ich meds that include meth blue is that mal green+meth blue will uncycle the tank rapidly if both are present in meaningful concentrations and mal green is needed. (I used mal green/meth blue/salt mix against a different infection...biocycle was kaput within a day). Cannot get to the web pages you linked, but I suspect either meth blue is in very low concentration, or there drugs are very bad on the tank.

[Marcos Mataratzis]

Hi milkev,

Here are the concentration on both:

Labcon Ictio: each 100mL contains:
Mal green: 0.60g
Met blue: 0.30g
MgSO4: 0.30g
KCl: 0.20g
CuSO4: 1,00g

Labcon Clean: each 100mL contains:
Mal green: 0.28g
Met blue: 0.14g
Formalin: 17.20g
CuSO4: 0.70g

I agree with you. Meth blue whypes out the biocycle. It also turns silicon blueish. That´s why I don´t use either of those medicines in the main tank.

[mikev]

And you got Copper too...this makes these drugs really unsuitable for loaches.

At least your manufacturers list the components so you can decide. The stupid secretiveness of the Brits (and the Taiwanese too) is irritating.

[Marcos Mataratzis]

Hi mikev,

And you got Copper too...this makes these drugs really unsuitable for loaches.

Note that Malachite Green´s composition is Copper acetate. We still get copper anyway...

At least your manufacturers list the components so you can decide. The stupid secretiveness of the Brits (and the Taiwanese too) is irritating.

It is indeed... Azoo products (Taiwan) has nothing on their directions about composition.