Upgrading Loach Tank Need Input: 120 gallon

[LoachOrgy]

one of the reasons that i wanted the black sand to begin with was for the vivid colors it produces in the fish. i thought it would make the loach colors really stand out. i will take a look at the 3m quartz but I will most likely stay with the sand I have now.

i am definitely keeping both rena x3's attached to the 120 as well as the aquaclear 70 and two maybe 3 jetheads. horizontally i think I only have room for two jetheads.

here is a video with the sand that i am thinking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CB81b0bNC8



only part of this link is showing. but you can direct yourself towards the color quartz pool gravel.
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/!ut/ ... FQEAHTt83Y!

[crazy loaches]

Here is more direct link FWIW
edit> never mind thier screwy format is messing with the boards format. It wont make it into a clickable link, just copy n paste the whole part from above post.

The main problem with the color quartz is there are only a few dealers scattered about and the price seems to very wildly amoung them. Some have paid $18 for 50# others closer to $40. For black S grade my closest dealer is $30, about the same as TMS - a few bucks cheaper.

[ckk125]

oh well, i DID it and it made the clowns turn black.

FYI,using substrate to make them stand out is a bad idea for bottom dwellers. Loaches are not stupid. They will change their colour to a darker one to make them less stand out.

Wild behaviour. Stand out=get spotted=dead. Thats why you dont see any albino fish in the wild.

If you really want the colours to really stand out, use a black background, not black substrate.

If my words are not enough, have a look at this.

[crazy loaches]

Well the flipside would be white sand, which makes them equally stand out IMO, and it seems many here have taken that route without problem. I dont see how a dark substrate could be worse than a bright one. I might yet go with a white-ish sand like pool filter sand, it would be a lot cheaper. But I find it hard to believe black substrate will cause this much grief with loaches. But poor photography means nothing to me.

[ckk125]

Well the flipside would be white sand, which makes them equally stand out IMO, and it seems many here have taken that route without problem. I dont see how a dark substrate could be worse than a bright one. I might yet go with a white-ish sand like pool filter sand, it would be a lot cheaper. But I find it hard to believe black substrate will cause this much grief with loaches. But poor photography means nothing to me.

Have you tried it for yourself? If you haven't please do so before making any statements.

BTW, at that time, i dont have the resources available to get a good photo.That is the best i can get at that time. Not everyone can afford a high end camera.

Do I need to post the photos of the same loaches in natural gravel and in black to really prove it?

[ckk125]

Here is the photo with natural gravel, the very same batch of clowns before i converted it to black sand.

This proves my statement unless my clowns are abnormal.

[shari2]

Personally, I have seen dark clowns in a tank with darker substrate and low lighting. They tend to look chocolatey (if that's a word...) and the tank I saw was rather broody looking, but also cool if you like that sort of thing. I don't think it was just the photo that made the clowns look darker.

In my tank with natural mixed stone gravel they are normal colors, sometimes bright, sometimes greyed out and occasionally one or two will darken for some reason.

The dark background, with natural decor/plants/wood/rocks and lower lighting seems to work well. Allows the colors to remain 'normal' looking except when they choose to grey out.
They also are bright in my sand (nearly white) tank that has no background at all, but lower light and lots of wood/plants.

It's really a matter of personal preference.

[crazy loaches]

It's really a matter of personal preference.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

I have not tried black, so I cannot really argue that its ok, I can only seem to think that the color black wouldnt be detrimental to the loaches like you make it seem they are going to die a terrible death or something. I'll report back with my findings, as I'll more than likely do all black but it'll be a few months. If it appears detrimental in anyway then I will tear down the tank and remove all 400-500 pounds of it.

As far as the photos go there is really no comparison. For a comparison the only thing you want to have changed is the substrate. Things like the use of the flash in the new picture, the loaches being in the back and tiny, really make it hard to make any kind of legitimate comparison.

And FWIW some of the natural habitat probably more closely matches dark brown or even black than it does bright reds and tans, just depends as there is variations from area to area. When I bought mine I thought it was 'natural' (the pic of clowns in my sig) but after having stared at it for a while it seems anything but natural.

[shari2]

I can only seem to think that the color black wouldnt be detrimental to the loaches like you make it seem they are going to die a terrible death or something.

I don't think he meant to go quite that far.
Thought he was just bringing up the fact that in his case the dark substrate caused the loaches to darken up to blend in better. Perfectly natural response, nothing 'deadly'.

[fish]

I use fine black gravel and although the clowns aren't quite as bright as when they were new it really isn't an issue in my eyes. The many moods of loaches means, in my experience, they don't all remain the same colour for any great length of time regardless of substrate colour. Is it not the case that a really happy relaxed clown will show less contrasting colours anyway? As long as you are using a sand that won't damage barbels or gills surely colour is a secondary issue.
Guess what your saying really shari!

[LoachOrgy]

you said "chocolatey".....lol.....nice description!

[Martin Thoene]

She's a woman, W_O_M_A_N.......she has chocolate on the brain

Martin.

[ckk125]

It's really a matter of personal preference.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

I have not tried black, so I cannot really argue that its ok, I can only seem to think that the color black wouldnt be detrimental to the loaches like you make it seem they are going to die a terrible death or something. I'll report back with my findings, as I'll more than likely do all black but it'll be a few months. If it appears detrimental in anyway then I will tear down the tank and remove all 400-500 pounds of it.

As far as the photos go there is really no comparison. For a comparison the only thing you want to have changed is the substrate. Things like the use of the flash in the new picture, the loaches being in the back and tiny, really make it hard to make any kind of legitimate comparison.

And FWIW some of the natural habitat probably more closely matches dark brown or even black than it does bright reds and tans, just depends as there is variations from area to area. When I bought mine I thought it was 'natural' (the pic of clowns in my sig) but after having stared at it for a while it seems anything but natural.

As i said before, Loaches aint stupid...they will blend into the substrate to avoid detection by predators..

Flash or no flash, if the clown is black, it is black...there is not 2 ways about it.Black absorbs light.

As we all know, Clowns are capable of controlling their colour intensity, depending on the mood, but they are also capable to blend themselves into the environment.

Here is a photo of my 8 inch fat clown.This will show you that with or without flash, if she is chocolatey, she'll always be.

[shari2]

Good illustration Chen.

(and I very rarely eat chocolate, and only if it has nuts!)

[LoachOrgy]

well i finished moving loach tanks last night to the new townhouse. i lost one cherry barb due to moving. i think the pleco was startled and ripped the cherry barb in half. everyone else in the tank looks good and they were feeding this morning.

i had a bit of an incident. big loach fell out of the fishnet when i was taking him/her out of the carrying container. i picked him up and placed him back in the net. he caught me in the hand with his spinal lobe. pierced me right open. i didn't feel a thing though. had a bit of a blood spot but nothing that wouldn't heal up in a day or two. that is double o loaches 2nd near death experience in his life. hopefully, he will forgive me.

as for substrate. i think i have made my decision. i am going to keep the white sand and just keep a very similar color theme as what i have going on right now. i think its easier and cheaper this way. i will only need around one or two more bags of the sand to complete the new tank.

what is really cool about the new apartment is that the 120 gallon is going to be the centerpiece of the room. it will sit behind a counter in the kitchen that is visible from the living room and dining room. this will look very slick bc the counter only goes up right to the top of the tank furniture. so it looks like a floating tank in the middle of the room. i am so excited i started moving last night and setup the fishtank.the room the tank is in, will be kept very open so i don't have to move any furniture near that area.

aside from that, i was thinking of adding one more piece of ornament that has a bit more space in it. so that all the loaches will fit in the future when they get fatter than they are. so far i really love those giant open pirate ships but i havn't really decided yet. it will probably involve a few more pieces of pvc pipe as well and i plan on getting a few mats of java fern. although my loaches try to tear it up i have gone a good 6 months with the plants i bought earlier this year. whats left is basically one java fern from 3 that i started with. the loaches like ripping the leaves out of the base and letting them float in the water. well, i will anchor them down with some bigger rocks in the next tank. i don't think i am going with any driftwood. everything i have seen from the lfs isn't worth buying.

i will tell ya, 5 gallon paint buckets make fish moving easy!