Two foot river tank

[TammyLiz]

Uhu. Incidentally, do go over all the other stuff he has listed.

I'm pretty sure that both Martin and Jim would consider Chenis a very good choice too. IMHO, WAY more interesting than Gastros. Vannies IMO a great choice also. Zippers are immensely entertaining, even if they are not hillstreams. For the last two weeks, when I feed the fish, I spend a few minutes watching them eat--it is quite a show. Sewellias are not too bad either. Rosies. And two more things that are supposed to show up this weekend. Etc.

Are you talking about the ones labled Pseudogastromyzon myersi when you say cheni? I didn't see any chenis listed. Is it their personality that makes them more interesting than then g. ocellatus, or what? Having never seen any of these fish in person I wouldn't know. I think Martins picture of the ocelatus all sitting around together is enough to make me want them.

Zippers sound adorable, and the rosies are something that I want, but I can't get everything!

I'm working on freeing up a 10 gallon tank as well and am trying to decide what to put in that. I had three thoughts. oil catfish, rosies, and hara. 10 gallon tanks just seem so small to me for anything, though. I might just plant it and put in some microrasboras and ottos or something like that. Anyways, that is probably a subject for another thread, although I know threads on this forum tend to get pretty off topic and nobody seems to mind.

I wanted to leave with all the gastros but I walked out with my filters and a good dose of depression.

Sorry you seem to have the same problem I do.

And I am glad to hear that your chenis seem happy in your 2 foot tank.

[shari2]

The three ocellatus in mine are very cute. Fighting one minute, sitting all around together (each on their own rock in a cluster) looking like they are talking, then one wants the other rock and the shuffle starts...

[mikev]

Are you talking about the ones labled Pseudogastromyzon myersi when you say cheni? I didn't see any chenis listed.

Right. The classification is a mess in this place (like many others...)

Is it their personality that makes them more interesting than then g. ocellatus, or what? Having never seen any of these fish in person I wouldn't know. I think Martins picture of the ocelatus all sitting around together is enough to make me want them.

Personality, and the appearance too. Find Martin's Cheni Dorsal Photo. Plus, they are breedable.
(And, incidentally, they look quite similar to G.Ocelattus).

(I had Chenis for a very short time -- they came with one of the deadly diseases and I was down to one before I figured out the drug -- but they were great. Will have them again, hopefully.)

Zippers sound adorable, and the rosies are something that I want, but I can't get everything!

I'm working on freeing up a 10 gallon tank as well and am trying to decide what to put in that. I had three thoughts. oil catfish, rosies, and hara. 10 gallon tanks just seem so small to me for anything, though.

Unsure about the other two, but 10g is certainly sufficient for Haras. The person on the scotcat forum who bred them keeps them in a 5g (!?) for several years.

Alternatively, a 15g with Hara and either Tweedies or Vannies should make a very interesting tank.

Alternatively, a low-current tank (seemingly preferred by Hara) with microrasboras should work very nicely.


BTW, part of my negative attitude on Gastros is that they are easy to find. Gastros and Beaufortias are the two hillstream types that one is guaranteed to find just by waiting a little. The rest, one should use every chance available, because it just may happen you would not see them again.

For example, I was very wrong to skip my chance on Crossostoma in the spring...the fish is a maniacal killer and I thought to wait until I can have a separate tank for them... (plus they were in the place where I lose most of the fish and were sick with at least ich).
Well, cannot find them now.

[mikev]

They has white clouds in the tank with the gastros, washed out weak little things and it was very depressing to see a dozen or so bodies hanging out of the filter intake, even worse to note that some were still struggling to free them selves...

That is nearly exactly like one of my recent disasters.

I got four WCMM's to go with the Gastros (they were in the same tank at the store). Noticed that they were "washed out", decided this does not matter, since they seemed strong.

Within a week, three were dead, and so were nearly all at the store (at least 50). The only good thing is that whatever killed them did not spread to the Gastros. So now I'm stuck with a single WCMM's in a Q-tank, still washed out and very unhappy, and I'm afraid to move it to my school (maybe it still has the disease?).

[TammyLiz]

The three ocellatus in mine are very cute. Fighting one minute, sitting all around together (each on their own rock in a cluster) looking like they are talking, then one wants the other rock and the shuffle starts...

They sound like fun, Shari!

mikev wrote:

Alternatively, a low-current tank (seemingly preferred by Hara) with microrasboras should work very nicely.

Sounds good to me. Hara with some microrasboras. I had thought it would be unlikely that the rasboras would go uneaten by the hara, which prefer live food, but if he really thinks its OK...
I wonder how small he meant by "small rasboras".

As far as breeding the hillstreams, I may want to in the future but I have not deceived myself into thinking it'd be something I should strive toward at this point.

I couldn't find much info on Pseudogastromyzon myersi. The species description of Pseudogastromyson cheni indicates they are a seperate species, but I couldn't figure out what the difference was.

[mikev]

I had thought it would be unlikely that the rasboras would go uneaten by the hara, which prefer live food, but if he really thinks its OK...

No fish can eat something that is larger than its mouth.
Haras are *very small*. Their mouths are yet smaller.

If the rasboras spawn, I suspect Haras will enjoy their eggs and fry. But eating a 1cm fish (or catching it) is way beyond their capability.

I couldn't find much info on Pseudogastromyzon myersi. The species description of Pseudogastromyson cheni indicates they are a seperate species, but I couldn't figure out what the difference was.

Assume Cheni==Myersi.

[Jim Powers]

P. cheni and myersi are very similar. In fact, cheni is often misidentified as myersi in the pet trade. Behavior would, no doubt, be pretty much the same.
Here is a pic of myersi.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v470/ ... imgAnch139

[Martin Thoene]

Ahem............

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Nomenclatu ... ame=myersi

But if you look at the P. cheni profile.....

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/Sp ... p?id=55707

If you look at the Fishbase profile I'll swear the awful photograph they have is a Gastromyzon ocellatus.

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Summary/Sp ... hp?id=7757

http://filaman.ifm-geomar.de/Nomenclatu ... Name=cheni

Martin.

[mikev]

If you look at the Fishbase profile I'll swear the awful photograph they have is a Gastromyzon ocellatus.

He-heh. Indeed: If you magnify the awful photograph, you will see very typical ocellatus red in the tail...


The relevant HK supplier simply does know what Cheni is, we asked him back in spring and they never heard about Chenis. The fish is listed as Myersi in whatever book he is using.

A more interesting question is if there is any evidence around that there are indeed two species...

[Martin Thoene]

Get this.....I have a book with a photograph captioned Pseudogastromyzon myersi and it's a picture of Liniparhomaloptera disparis....DOH!

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

If its the same book as mine, it also has a pic of what appears to be a cheni that is labeled. Gastromyzon borneensis. Doh! indeed.

Oh yes, and to further confuse things, I noticed in Dr. Tan's book that there is a fish called Neogastromyzon chini.

[Martin Thoene]

Let me guess.......it bears a striking resemblance to Jay Leno.

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

Very funny

[TammyLiz]

P. cheni and myersi are very similar. In fact, cheni is often misidentified as myersi in the pet trade. Behavior would, no doubt, be pretty much the same.
Here is a pic of myersi.
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v470/ ... imgAnch139

I'm not seeing the difference between this and the pictures of cheni in the species description here on the LOL forum.

What a mess.

Whatever we call them, does everyone think they would be a better choice for my little tank than the g. ocellatus?

There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with either of them, if you ask me. And as far as what is available and what is not, I think that can change over time. Whatever I get may end up hard to find or very common in the near future. Around here there is nothing available that is in good health, so anything on Franks list looks great to me.

I know the discussion isn't all about my tank but thats what I'm most interested in.

[Jim Powers]

Either ocellatus or cheni are good choices. With cheni there is that possibility of breeding.
As for the difference between cheni and myersi:
Here are just a few.
Cheni has bolder markings with more contrast between the markings and the background color. Myersi markings have a faded look.Cheni has a more narrow snout when viewed from below.
The naked area of the abdomen reaches the anus in cheni not in myersi.