Help ID a loach..../Hillstream tank setup question

[mikev]

; duplicate deleted

......I'm seeing some other strange things here....did anyone ever try putting a kuhli into a hillstream tank?

[Martin Thoene]

In the first ever prototype River-Tank back in England, I had an odd kuhli.
I bought a nice tank second-hand that had a few odd fish in it. One was a kuhli. you'd have loved it Mike, hardly any markings. I had no tank where it would not have gotten eaten, so popped it in the River-Tank. It used to appear from under rocks at feeding time and chow down with the other fish. It did OK, but to be honest these conditions are not the kuhli ideal.
I don't think a very gentle flow is a bad idea though.

Martin.

[mikev]

; dup -- sorry

[mikev]

; dup -- sorry.

[mikev]

you'd have loved it Mike, hardly any markings

My kind of fish, yes!!!

OK, here is what I'm seeing today: the 10g tank has three kuhlis, I figured I can leave them in since there is no current in the right half of the tank, and, TBH, I wanted to see what they will do -- I've seen kuhlis in a vertical current already. A very crude scheme:



Lots of current on the left, almost no current on the right.

Where the current hits the wall, the current is pretty strong. Hillstreams seem to like to go through it next to the wall (and also sit on the wall -- I see one SpA and one SpB there right now). When hillstreams go through the current, they get tossed -- but they seem to enjoy it.

Now, one of the kuhlis is doing exactly the same since morning. I think she (I know this is a she) actually enjoys it quite a lot. Of course, she gets tossed too, but she manages to stay in control just as well as the hillstreams do. Maybe she is totally nuts, but she goes into the "red" area quite deliberately. She periodcally rests, then goes back in.

And she really compensates for the current just as well as the hillstreams. Of course, differently, but long body is not exactly bad for streams to.

We consider Dojos to be a river fish....why not (some???) kuhlis?

The other two are also more active than usual, but not to this insane current fascination.

Very interesting...

I don't think a very gentle flow is a bad idea though.

I think it is an excellent idea.... but after seeing this I'm beginning to think that "very" should be taken out, and possibly "gentle" too....

[shari]

Remember that the behavior of a single fish does not necessarily indicate the behavior or preferences of all. While your one loach seems to enjoy the rapids apparently the other 2 don't care for it as much...

[mikev]

Yes, full agreement.

The rule must be:

Any kind of experiment like this should give the fish the option of opting out==the tank must have quiet areas and hiding places. In this 10g, it is the case, she can go to the right side or under the log, if she wants to.

What also is interesting is to try to understand why she behaves differently. Three possibilities that I see are:
1. Individuals differ --- surely true, but we can still look for patterns.
2. Kuhlis are a mix of different (sub)species from different regions; some may be more adapted to faster streams than others.
3. Size matters --- the other two are subadults or young adults.

What I now believe to be true is that nearly every kuhli will appreciate some current (this comes from my vertical experiment in the other tank). Giving them hillstream level of current is obviously an overkill, but giving them half of it may be just what all three would like. (I'll try this once the hillstreams go to their permanent tank.)

-----------------------

One more observation: SpB seems to be settling in nicely. I've seen a couple of chases, very similar to what my schistura does. Hopefully they are not too territorial....

[Martin Thoene]

Mike needs to read this:

http://www.i-mockery.com/visionary/kuhliloaches.php

Kuhlis are found in very slow moving or still waters with a build up of mulm. they tend to congregate around the banks where there is good cover.

Like most loaches, they react to change in the aquarium. All mine go nuts at water-change time. Stick a big honkin' powerhead in there and they might just react. But it tends to be temporary. The kuhli is just being a kuhli....they go nuts. Doesn't necessarily mean it's having fun per se'.

Martin.

[mikev]

Mike needs to read this...

I love it. Making fun of pregnant ladies is a bit low class, but I still love it.

Lets see how it develops....

So far it does not look like a go-nuts reaction to a change; I've installed the powerhead on Thursday, and Friday there was nothing special, it only started today. And all go-nuts episodes I've seen so far (many)lasted less than an hour, she was doing it the entire day with breaks.

It still may be a go-nuts case, the tank is overcrowded and the hillstreams may be disturbing the kuhlis...let's wait till they are removed. Or it may be a case of pre-rain excessive swimming -- some kuhlis are pretty good predictors. I'll keep notes on what is happening.

[mikev]

Ok, it was the rain indeed, we got one today, and some kuhlis somehow sense it in advance.

Still, it was interesting that one other kuhli (P.S) joined her (P.M) in swimming today, but unlike her was very careful in avoiding the rapids... He stopped now, she is still doing it a bit.

..........

On other fronts, I pumped ammonia into the new tank and if it clears by tonight, I'm getting white clouds tomorrow....

[mikev]

A minor disaster on my end: I still did not get the tank cycled -- this is despite doing nearly everything to speed this up: I used Cycle+Biozyme+stuff from a mature tank.....

Lets see if biospira improves the situation any, I just added it to the cocktail.....

[mikev]

OK, if someone has a brilliant idea on how to speed this up, it will be very much appreciated.

Biospira did not do anything: I've added a package yesterday, half into the outside filter, half into the tank, and the ammonia is still present as of now --> which means that total reliance on biospira is not safe. It has been one week now, with bacteria seeded from another tank+Cycle+BioZyme+Biospira(1day). Trace amounts of salt added (I know this speeds up a little). The first leg of the cycle (elimination of ammonia) should not take this long. I think that chlorine should be totally gone now, even if somehow it was not totally removed by the conditioner. I'll drop some food into the tank, maybe some other trace element is missing.

Is it possible that the powerhead interferes with bacteria settling down?

[Jim Powers]

I think you just need to be a little patient. I know that is hard to do when you want to get the tank going. I really believe that the biospira will take off in a day or two. You just put it in yesterday, so give it a chance. Your fish will be fine in the other tank until things settle out.
When I last used biospira, it took a few days to really take off, but once it did, the ammonia dropped off quickly.

[mikev]

Jim, thanks.

It is not my patience, I'm unsure about Your fish will be fine in the other tank --- 25 fish in a 10g makes me check water params every few hours. The tank seems to holding fine so far....and even if hillstreams seem uniquely clean..this cannot last too long.

Can I bother you with one more question please?
SpA seems to be very fond of Amazon sword plants.
Can I put some in the new tank? (UG filter-->means no organic substrate-->will the plants make it?)

[Jim Powers]

I don't grow Swords, but I have anubius, crypts, val, sagitaria, and even java fern in the gravel with UGs and they grow well. I use Seachem Fluorish. I had always heard that you can't grow plants well with a UG but I think it can be done. Probably having a gravel depth of about 2" -2.5" helps.