River Tank Babies!!!

[Tony T.]

I'm sorry Tony. I just quoted your question and it seemed i took over your post.

Martin! Your right with this *bug* on the moderators section.

My apologies. Tony.


Overall is Sewellia more active and less shy than Gastromyzon?

Yes. Within my river tank the Gastromyzon are slower movers unless competition is in vision. But this all depends on which environment and tank size they live in.

[Emma Turner]

The pics of the fighting Sewellia were taken at our shop some time ago, and are not the same fish as in my tank. You can view the whole sequence here: http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php ... t=sewellia

Approx 4-5 weeks ago, we added a group of females to our existing group of 6 males, which had been in the tank for some months. I found the fry in the filter between 2 and 3 weeks later, so not much time had passed! The only other notable 'change' was that I started using Indian almond leaves in the filter about 6 or 7 weeks ago now too.

I've not kept Gastromyzon so I can't comment on behaviour comparisons. I'm sure Graeme and Martin will chip in though.

Emma

[Martin Thoene]

Well that timing would be right on the money with my experience with P. cheni. A sudden change and mixing of sexes could trigger some akshun

The thick plottens......

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

Refresh my memory. What do the almond leaves do?
I don't recall ever seeing them in a fish store.

[Martin Thoene]

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/man ... _Leaf.html

Mind jog...

Martin.

[mikev]

Beautiful babies, again.

Same question about Beaufortia: any success by anyone?

Since Gastros and Beaufortias are far more common than Sewillias one would expect to hear about breedings...unless there is a reason? Is it possible that the people with proper river tanks simply don't keep less interesting hillstreams (or keep mixes of Gastros of different species?)

[Graeme Robson]

I'm totally willing to be shot down and proved wrong, but I'm still leaning toward them not being Sewellia.

Snipers at the ready!!

I also do like to 'puff' out ones cheeks and stretch the arms. (just like the fry, which Emma shows us.)

[Graeme Robson]

PS. Yes! I'm a grumpy Sod! Lately.

[Emma Turner]

Aw, Graeme! Maybe some more loach fry pics might make you smile.
They might cause even more confusion too..........

Taken this evening 01/07/2006:













It looks like the ventral fins are overlapping the pectoral fins. In adult Sewellia they seem to overlep the other way round (i.e. pecs over ventrals).

Fry are approx 12 - 13mm total length now.

Emma

[Jim Powers]

Great pics, once again, Emma.
I'm still very confused, though. While I continue to lean towards these being Annamia, the overlapping fins do present a problem, even if they are a bit different than the adult Sewellia.

[Graeme Robson]

Just what the Doctor ordered!

Beautiful pictures with a 'hangover'

[sophie]

looks like those barbels are getting more pronounced rather than less significant? and though the fins are overlapping at the moment, when the fish gets longer, the gap between them might get longer...
I'm sticking with my first bet.
no, rilly.

[Emma Turner]

But the fin ray count seems to be too high for Annamia, plus the two possible 'parent' fish do not even look like the same species. The Annamia have quite deeply forked tails too, whereas the fry do not.....

Anyway, whatever they are, they are hanging out in little groups on the glass again today.

Emma

[Martin Thoene]

Well I'm seeing the appearance of barring on the pecs and pelvics which would be consistent with Sewellia.

I was having a think on this today........(pause for thought).

In the development of a human embryo, we see stages that resemble fish, amphibian, reptile and then onward towards a human form. In other words a progression through the stages of evolution that led to the modern form.

Now if you go to fish, think on this. Flatfish represent a complete change from conventional fish shape, yet when they are born, they resemble regular fish. Gradually, they change and one eye migrates around the head till they're both on top.

Balitorids come in many forms and it's generally recognized that such fish as Sewellia and the like represent the most extreme forms of development from the regular fish design. At one end of the family, you have Schistura-type fish and at the other the extremely dorsally compressed fish.

SO......would it not be unreasonable to expect to see a similar evolutionary snapshot of events in the development of these fry? They looked primarily Schistura/Nemacheilus like intitially. Now we're seeing fin development. Right now the Pectoral fin base looks a lot shorter than in an adult Sewellia, but it's possible this will grow and the fin will come up over the front edge of the Pelvic fin. No sign of the "fatness" above the Pectoral you see in most sucker-type Hillstreams and the gill-slit is quite small in Sewellia, while these babies appear to have moe Schistura -type gill areas. Love to see a head closeup Emma

I'm a bit suprised that at 12-13mm there's not more development either in a Sewellia or Annamia direction, but we'll have to wait and see.

Martin.

[Tony T.]

I think more id effort should be done once these fry attain 2cm or more Right now we are pushing these babies a bit too hard

btw Nalbant's paper [IRRC] put nemachilines back to loaches and away from hillstreams.