Help ID a loach..../Hillstream tank setup question

[mikev]

Thanks a lot, again.

OK, I'll try to get the plants you mentioned too & Seachem, for now a dirty trick solution:



The ring around the plants is a buried plastic container with an inch of flora base inside. Should work for a few months. Jave fern on a driftword on the left per your instructions.

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BTW, your prediction about SpA seems to be coming through. I just saw four SpA eating algae wafers. Again, the smaller ones -- they seem to be more adaptable, but the big one probably has better resources to last without food until it is ready.

[TammyLiz]

Mike,
I love your little plastic container. Reading the previous posts, I was about to suggest you pot it and put a root tab in the pot, but you're ahead of me as usual. Root tabs may still be a good idea. If the leaves start to brown or get holes, stick one of those bad boys down under the roots. I hear swords almost always need them. If your lighting is low and growth rate is low you may be able to get along without, but with such a little space for the roots I would be willing to bet the tabs would help. If your water starts to get cloudy because of it you can just take it out.
Tammy

[mikev]

Tammy,

The container is actually a box of blank CD's (well, it was). They come in different sizes and I use them for different purposes, mostly fish-related. I acclimate in a box of 50 or 100 CD's (much nicer than in a bag, and easy to see how much water has been changed), use them for water changes too, but boxes of 25, like this one, are suitable for pots.

I'm not ahead of you by any means---I have very little experience with plants. For example, I have no idea what are "root tabs" -- I'll google for it later.

[mikev]

SpA's finally eating an algae wafer!

[Jim Powers]

That's great! They all figured out that those green round things were food at about the same time. What is the size range of these fish?

[mikev]

Not all -- the big one is still not eating (or eating algae at night).

The ones on the picture are 1"-1.5", the big one I think is over 2.5", the max size is probably around 3". The larger they are the prettier they are.

Huh? This is really funny, I tried fishbase.org search on "Vanmanenia" to give you a better answer and it crashed:

Fatal error: Call to a member function fetch_assoc() on a non-object in F:\wwwroot\filaman.uni-kiel.de\htdocs\Nomenclature\ScientificNameSearchList.php on line 657

Other searches work fine.

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APPEND. Anyway, fishbase would have been of no use, it has no size info on most species, and we don't know which one it is. Here is the species list, possibly incomplete:

Vanmanenia caldwelli (Nichols, 1925)
Vanmanenia gymnetrus Chen, 1980
Vanmanenia hainanensis Chen & Zheng, 1980
Vanmanenia homalocephala Zhang & Zhao, 2000
Vanmanenia lineata (Fang, 1935)
Vanmanenia pingchowensis (Fang, 1935)
Vanmanenia serrilineata Kottelat, 2000
Vanmanenia stenosoma (Boulenger, 1901)
Vanmanenia striata Chen, 1980
Vanmanenia tetraloba (Mai, 1978)
Vanmanenia xinyiensis Zheng & Chen, 1980

[Jim Powers]

I thought you had seen the big one grazing on algae? If so, he will probably start eating like the others soon. If he isn't grazing at all...well that may be a problem. Sometimes hillsterams just don't adapt to the food we offer. Sometimes it just takes time. I had a gastro that took four months to start eating other than through grazing. Now he goes nuts over bloodworms and brine shrimp and has grown considerably. Another gastro has never made that connection but is still alive and well after 1.5 years. He seems to get enough to eat by grazing, but has grown much more slowly.
By the way, from the side, it is amazing just how much Sp.A looks like L. disparis. The pectoral fins look a bit larger, but the markings are very similar. From the top, however, you can see the different head shape of the two species.

[mikev]

Only sitting on an algae area a couple of times, I did not see him actually taking it. And he is back on the powerhead now (he likes the area where the powerhead sucks in water).

(I have a feeling that older loaches always has more trouble adapting: 3" clowns took much more time than 1.5"-2" ones, and I know a couple of bad stories about 5" clowns.)

The chenis, otoh, were very quick to figure the things out, they spread into the most promising areas of the tank within an hour, one actually landed correctly when I released him and went into eating right away.

What you are saying about the gastro survival on grazing sounds promising.

By the way, from the side, it is amazing just how much Sp.A looks like L. disparis.

The markings are nicer, imho, but while disparis or a close relative was the original guess....I'm certain that it is some kind of Vantanmenia now. The hope, of course, is that they are similar enough to get established and breed one day.

[mikev]

Jim,

I finally solved the problem with the big SpA -- managed to land a bloodworm just in front of him. He ate it with real disgust at first...now he is running around the tank, digging and looking for more.

I think I understood the SpA psychology now: while some loaches go into hiding for a week or two in a new place, these don't hide, but simply try to be very quiet and sit still. Once they get accustomed to the tank, they become much more active.

BTW, my search of more stores for hillstreams produced unexpected results. The less common stuff was something called "Chinese High-Fin Loach" (yeah, that 40in thing...why would anyone call it a loach?) and I saw a couple of L.Taeniops today...another really nice looking fish. I think I can resist...barely.

[Jim Powers]

That's good news. Now that he realizes that they are tasty, he'll probably fatten up in no time. The good thing about your fish is that they looked to be in good shape when you got them. Often times hillstreams are a bit on the thin side or even down right skinny when they come in.

[mikev]

They are not skinny because they were not starved at all, direct flight from Asia killed more than half (almost all SpB--I looked), but the rest were basically straight from the river.

If anyone else ever gets Vantanmenia, don't repeat my error: they should be isolated from more active hillstreams (like my SpB or any schisturas)until they are totally comfortable in the tank. I think they can manage the competition fine once they have settled. And they probably should be the 1st species in, if it is a new tank.

[mikev]

Oh well, the darn thing finally cycled... Biospira, like everything else, was no use, but now I'm finally at 0/0 (after dumping more ammonia in the morning--full clear within 3 hours).

First 8 (2 hillstreams+6 WCMM's) are being acclimated now, if everything ok, the rest will go in tomorrow....hopefully the bacteria will last till tomorrow, these fishes do not produce enough waste to make one feel safe.... I think I'll need more stones and algae (and possibly one more powerhead)......



...............

[mikev]

G. Punctulatus, right?

(Jim, you were right about these gastros being active: after about 30 mins in the new tank, they turned into active fish. Jumping between glass, stones and plants now. Much better than what I saw at the store.)

[Martin Thoene]

Beaufortia....probably kweichowensis. They will color up more in a while.








The liveliness is the result of having the correct conditions. It just verifies my stance on giving these fish what they need. You'll never see proper behaviour or activity otherwize.

It's like the flyer..."It does exactly what it says on the packet"

Martin.

[Jim Powers]

Wait a minute....did I miss something? When did you get these beaufortia? Under what name were they being sold?

I have heard people say when looking at hillstreams in stores that they "didn't do anything". But as you have discovered, given the right conditions, they are very active fish. Hopefully, the flier will help by giving people some basic info and encouraging them to check out Martin's article and give these fish what they need.